World-Building Section

[mickilennial]

Back when the “big” migration happened from RPG to Iwaku, a lot of RPG members said the latter site was too cluttered and that was back when Iwaku had a section for every genre of role-playing (science fiction, fantasy, etc.) – RPG has always held itself as a community that stands out because it is the opposite of other role-playing websites in how simplistic it is in its approach. Even now after Iwaku has cut down their sections I still largely prefer RPG for finding RPs that fit my interest and having an organization that is far more orderly and to the point.

I’m on Iwaku, RPG, RPA, and some other sites at hte same time – however, as much as I rotate, I always seem to come back to and am the most frequent on RPG. RPG doesn’t need clutter.

[Holy Soldier]

Man, this thread is golden. I love it when someone asks for opinions but is not willing to listen.

Anyway, let me throw my chip into this discussion, if only so that my post isn't declared off-topic and "not to be entertained".

You know why I like the Guild? It's because it's simple. The more stuff you add on it, the harder it gets to use, so I'd rather not have to keep tabs of another section of this forum is possible. Even though I appreciate the quality writing of many members, this is not a novelists' community, we don't need more sections dedicated to fluff when the ones we have work.

@KoL

I haven't listened because no one is reading what I write. What you just said here is not what I've been saying at all, and therefore, you're repeating what so many before you have said because they haven't read either. The idea was originally to add a section because I didn't know that one already existed. When I asked if a world-building section existed, people didn't know what I was talking about. So I made this thread originally to have one created. Throughout the lengthening of this thread, it was revealed that a world-building section does exist on Guild. It is called the "Test Forum."

The very people who had argued with me for hours yesterday, saying they didn't want a world-building thread, had threads in the Test Forum dedicated to world-building. So instead of having a hypocritical rant, if a world-building thread already exists, the conversation changed to changing the name of the Test Forum to "World-Building" since that is what it is predominantly used for.

I'm also going to let you know that this is another repeat of what I've been saying so many times.

Next stop would be what, separating RPs in sub-forums for each genre so that people can know better where to post their sci fi, or fantasy RP?

@KoL

That is an entirely different topic and doesn't have anything to do with this one. You should make that into its own RP Discussion or a Suggestion.

Also, why not do your world building on your own RPs? Where the players are several times more likely to actually pay attention to it.

Plus, the way I'm seeing your arguments, you are saying that those who don't use a World Building section don't do world building, which is a fallacy.

@KoL

You clearly didn't read my argument, but I already clarified up above. I also do World-Build my own games. The original issue was having a place where players can world-build without having to clutter three different sections deemed as world-building threads: Test, Gallery, and Character Sheets. It was to organize Guild so that everything is where it should be.

100% in favor of adding tabs to other sections, though. It has been my long lasting dream to be able to do tabbed RPing PMs, and I can only see the system helping in other environments. But, another section is a big no. EW is already there to make us scroll down to reach the RPs for no reason, I don't think we need more.

@KoL

Again, this is a different discussion and not what is currently being talked about here. This is about World-Building.

At least I don't.

<Snipped quote by Holy Soldier>

We still can't even add more than 2 co-GMs, have the abilities for a GM to do more than 10 bans, or delete posts from their own RP. Don't you think that you are making a bit of a tall order just to satisfy your ego?

@KoL

What you said was a "tall order." The ability to add co-GMs to a role play and have them edit the 0th post is already an existing function. This function can easily exist as an entire thread rather than just one post in a thread. So before you "continue" to be rude, you can either choose to continue this conversation respectfully or just not comment at all. Because disrespect is reported and it doesn't contribute to the conversation.

[mickilennial]

Blunt disagreeance is not a personal attack. But I suppose someone only wanting positive reinforcement would think otherwise. I'm not sure how to further "contribute" to this discussion. Good luck, I suppose, but I think I'm going to focus on more productive discussions going forward. Hope you get the resolution you want, but if you think people are exclusively only allowed to agree with you or to state their opinions in a certain frame then this will be a short thread indeed.

[Holy Soldier]

You had nothing logical to contribute. When it was stated that the idea was all about condensing the threads down and giving Guild a sleek appearance, all you did was continue to talk about how "adding threads" "adding threads" "adding threads" and never once read the conversation. So instead of contributing to a pointless discussion with your misunderstandings, understanding the actual argument would have helped make this thread more productive and your comments more logical and related to what was being argued.@Inkarnate

[mickilennial]

@Holy Soldier Do not mention nor ping me going forward, thank you.

I am not interested in your inflammatory attempts to drag me into this conversation again nor am I with your rhetoric. Any further attempts at pinging me will be perceived as spam and I will report that to the staff as instigative remarks. Do not reply to this, do not quote this, do not ping me. Argue with someone else.

[KoL]

I was helping organize the site. The truth here is, if the Moderators decided to implement this idea, the people who are bemoaning it happening would still continue to write on this site regardless. It doesn't affect them in any way. As for the writers, it gives the people who "actually" world-build and who actually role play on this site a section for their drafts, ideas, and where they can place their concepts without having to choose from multiple different sections that really aren't meant for world-building. We're literally just "making" it a world-building thread because there's no real place to put the ideas. So you have world-building appearing in multiple sections for no reason. All you have to do is make a section for it.

@Holy Soldier

Implying that people who world-build need an explicit world building section when the majority of the people who posted here, myself included, stated the contrary. It also comes with the flipside of meaning that those who don't use a world-building section don't world-build.

Perhaps I've gone blind somewhere, but I'm not attacking you. Telling people to drop off of the discussion just because you don't agree with their opinion is a big way to show that you don't know how to argument.

Don't forget that, we have not seen one single opinion in favor of yours. Or a good counter point other than "even if it got done and people didn't use it, no one would stop playing here."

It's the same thing as a city building a random statue just because no one would move because of it. It's not a good argument in favor of your point, not at all.

[Holy Soldier]

@KoLWe also have yet to see a good argument as to why having a world-building section when people "world-build" would be a bad idea.

I wrote that line in the original discussion because I saw that the "Test Forum" was the illegitimate world-building thread so that's pretty old and you should be reading the updates.

I only tell people not to bother posting when they clearly have run out of discussion and are merely arguing for the sake of arguing and are no longer really arguing the topic. Because those pointless arguments turn into flames.

[Todd Howard]

Back when the “big” migration happened from RPG to Iwaku, a lot of RPG members said the latter site was too cluttered

@Inkarnate

God, yes. Iwaku was a damn mess, and I hated it there. It took me awhile to even be able to navigate the forum properly, let alone get into a roleplay: And it always took much too long. RPGuild has always been simple, with no clutter until Expanding Horizons came along, but opinions

Iwaku will always be worse for me because it attracts some terrible people, though. RPGuild has it's share of real shady people, but due to our size it's not as bad. Not to mention mods are quick to step up when something's wrong, usually. Never seen much mod work on Iwaku, but I never required it personally because the time between me being on there and Guild coming back wasn't very long.

And as we all know, I love crawling back here.

[Holy Soldier]

<Snipped quote by Inkarnate>

God, yes. Iwaku was a damn mess, and I hated it there. It took me awhile to even be able to navigate the forum properly, let alone get into a roleplay: And it always took much too long. RPGuild has always been simple, with no clutter until Expanding Horizons came along, but opinions

Iwaku will always be worse for me because it attracts some terrible people, though. RPGuild has it's share of real shady people, but due to our size it's not as bad. Not to mention mods are quick to step up when something's wrong, usually. Never seen much mod work on Iwaku, but I never required it personally because the time between me being on there and Guild coming back wasn't very long.

And as we all know, I love crawling back here.

@Raddum

Thanks for posting that deliberately off-topic post.

[NuttsnBolts]

All right guys, keep it clean.

Discussions and critiques are welcome, whereas personal remarks and trolling are not. Facts, information, positives, negatives, and implementation methods—this is how you debate.

As a reminder, nothing is concrete and just because an idea was presented does not make it so. Does not make it correct, does not make it wrong, but no one should be shot down for presenting their views.

[KoL]

@KoLWe also have yet to see a good argument as to why having a world-building section when people "world-build" would be a bad idea.

@Holy Soldier

This is right, to say the truth, however, if the problem is at a tie, going with the path of least resistance is the most optimal choice no matter the discussion.

So, why build/fix something that's neither needed, nor not needed? It would be a waste of time and effort no matter how you try to put it, unless one of the sides present a definitive solution.

This is the only logical answer that can come from this whole discussion.

[PrinceAlexus]

Well you can always have a reserved post on OOC for uploading world building. , or the zeroth to allow co gm to edit.

Also adding a new tab means most RP not use it likely? the only way might be to have a optimal tick box when setting one up to activate the extra world building page on creation. SO that if one needs it has the option, if not then it does not.

This would have to be in creation as i doubt you can add once thread made, coding wise, saving info, sounds like a headache.

but this would also require reworking all the notification, saved RP tabs, etc, and that im sure is probably something that might be a lot of work.

[Holy Soldier]

Honestly, if people are incapable of having a decent and intellectual argument, and instead are going to get riled up and upset, they should avoid this thread. Avoid all debatable discussions actually for it just may not be in your ("your" people in general) nature. Because those people are going to get mad and upset, and I'm just going to be going about my day indifferent and not able to relate.

I'm going to rewrite everything I've presented up to this point so people don't get misled by all the misunderstandings already presented.

1. The Test Forum discussion was discovered to be the “world-building” thread. Originally, people may not have known what a world-building thread was since this site doesn’t have one. I also notice that a lot of people only RP on this site versus multiple sites, and therefore, may not see innovated ideas for formatting and giving role players different ways to express their creativity.

2. The Character Sheet section and the RP Discussion were pointed out as being in the “Off-Topic” section. Since the “Test Forum” was also previously mentioned as possibly being changed, I suggested why not change all of them? Put Character Sheets and RP Discussion in a section related to Roleplaying.

3. It was suggested adding RP Tabs to the Test Forum, which I had mentioned doesn’t seem logical here. Maybe I wasn’t understanding the idea right, but world-building sections are pretty stand-alone but having moved the Character Sheets section under it would have not only gotten rid of an extra section but condensed it. So for example, the renamed “Test Forum” would take the place of how the “Advanced Roleplay” section is. Beneath it, would go “Character Sheets” as "Advanced Interest Checks" is under the Advanced Roleplay section. I hope that gives a visual of what I'm trying to say. In the overall section that World-Building would be in, it could be called “Out of Character” since the ideas are for “creation.” And RP Discussion can be moved beneath it as well.

4. I presented the idea for possibly using the same GM/co-GM collaborative administration techniques already offered with the 0th post as a feature in the World-Building section. This would allow people to build their worlds on this site "together" with whoever they list as co-Gms, in this sites format, and see what it all looks like overall before deciding whether to use the idea or leave it as a draft. It can even be used as a future idea.

[Holy Soldier]

@PrinceAlexusYeah, I don't know if this is even doable. Only because I don't know what Mahz's complete capabilities are. However, renaming a section as a "World-Building" section and organizing the sections should be very easy to do since he's not destroying and creating anything. He's editing and rearranging.

[ArenaSnow]

Here I go again. Line by line, trench warfare.

A World-Building section, if you've ever seen an actual one, is a stand-alone forum.

@Holy Soldier

Which is precisely what we do not need. An extra forum, or even modification of the current infrastructure, has little backing or true reason to be done.

I don't see why adding an OOC, IC, Character Thread (tabs) you would see when you stand the game up.

I don't even think this or the next line are necessary, but there have been multiple people expressing support for tabs, thus, it is more viable to do than adding something that has comparatively no support.

I don't see how that would be a solution when simply renaming the Test Forum to say "World-Building" and rewriting the description to include world-building is an easier change or renaming the Test Forum and creating a blank forum for the Test Forum when hardly anyone uses it as what it was originally deemed to be would be better I guess.

I don't see how this would be a solution over the char tab, posting in an existing forum and linking to it, or even PMing yourself. It does not need official recognition. It can be done, and has already been done.

The Test Forum is actually a waste since people can test signatures by easily adding it to their name and then looking at it. Bbcode is already tested with the "preview" function. This site doesn't use HTML, bots, or scripts, so it seems like an overall useless forum even if it is claimed that one is needed when it isn't.

- Preparing posts for use in the main sections
- Testing the use of BBCode without doing bullshit with their signature that is open for everyone to see. Unless you like refreshing a page and going "what kinda shitty formatting is that O.o"
- Posting your lore
- Storage
- Saving a post or other text, which may not even be relative to the guild (done that)
- Having the post on display for someone else to proofread, again without necessarily being in public

The World-Building section literally is a section for drafted ideas that you either use or don't use.

Ah, so like the Test Forum's current use. Exactly, in fact.

And if you decide that you like it and want to display it, stick it in the Gallery. Or even Character Sheets forum. The ambiguity would be a problem if the mods went after you for posting in one of three forums for similar tasks. Except, they aren't. They are in fact quite lax. I have had mods literally agree when I list the three forums + other places.

Going to ignore the remainder of that section.

But that is literally all that needs to be done. Making an extra tab for world-building in the RP format is not a good idea lol.

You're right. It's a better idea to use what's already there and not clutter with unnecessary tabs when the Char tab is perfectly suitable.

Actually, I take that back. That is not all. I should be able to permit a select few of people to add or edit the creations.

Co-GMs in the RP sections, Google Drive. Or perhaps a wiki if you think your creation is big enough to warrant it. That said, another user being able to edit your post (with explicit permission) would be nifty, but a feature I would not expect for quite a while.

If you are running a website, you want people to use your website more versus using other websites. It is business practice. The better your features, the more users will come to your site.

Other sites do fluff up with a hundred features. Like an above post said, it's why some users come here instead of such sites. This is dependent on Mahz or another willing developer actually making and adding this stuff, and I don't need to tell you that feature changes here are slow as molasses.

If you have lost interest in this discussion, no one is forcing you to continue.

@Holy Soldier

It is easy for me to write "No". I guess the two-latter part helps me add the other 4k characters to the post.

[PrinceAlexus]

@ArenaSnow@Holy Soldier

Yes also a point, i use this site as it is easy to use.

look at the google front page, look at other good sites.
Simple can be just as good as fancy shiny feratures

[ArenaSnow]

And a part 2, though from this point I'll mostly stick to direct replies, as there's plenty to muddle through and discuss.

@KoLWe also have yet to see a good argument as to why having a world-building section when people "world-build" would be a bad idea.

@Holy Soldier

We've yet to see something conclusive that indicates that this is even a problem. You do not have support. You do not have anyone debating with you. You are a one-man army, a lawyer without a client. I'd like to see some actual support pop in. When suggesting the change, the iota of proving necessity is on you. You haven't met that iota for anyone posting in here as far as I know.

[Holy Soldier]

@ArenaSnowIf you've already expressed that you don't support this idea and have found peace with all the comments you've made and have nothing more to contribute but trying to see this idea not happen, then why continue to post here? This thread is still open and it's going to be. People are going to continue to add thoughts and feedback to it. Just because you don't wish to anymore doesn't mean you have to keep posting how you don't want for the feedback to continue. No one is forcing you to continue to write lol.

[Little Bill]

what a zany hill to die on

[ArenaSnow]

@ArenaSnowIf you've already expressed that you don't support this idea and have found peace with all the comments you've made and have nothing more to contribute but trying to see this idea not happen, then why continue to post here?

@Holy Soldier

Why are you asking the primary critic of the idea to leave, while you, its primary supporter, continue to post things? Are you not adding more by posting?

And further, why completely bypass my questions simply to attack my presence? It leads to an easily formed perception that you're trying to get rid of an irksome pest who is disagreeing with you.

This thread is still open and it's going to be. People are going to continue to add thoughts and feedback to it.

Including you. If you have something new to add, it stands to reason that perhaps I have something new to add. And I have unanswered points.

Just because you don't wish to anymore doesn't mean you have to keep posting how you don't want for the feedback to continue. No one is forcing you to continue to write lol.

Hardly. It takes two minutes for me to make a reply, in between preparing to go to work (speaking for this morning). I strongly believe that this change is not needed. You plainly believe otherwise. So long as we're both in this thread and replying (you replying to others, me making a response to you) then perhaps there is still something to talk about.

And really, if we ran out of things to talk about, the next step would be to bring in the silent supporters who have been utterly absent thus far. As I said to someone in PM on the same matter on discord,

I would not say an uninformed attempt to compromise and an unhelpful 'yes' in discord is a grand community that desires change