Kingmakers - The Throne Alone (GoT/ASOIF-like) (Noble Politics)

[ClocktowerEchos]

@DegenerateThree If you want help or background information on Adanion, please feel free to reach out. The RP isn't going to be starting any time quick, I have other outside work I need to do and also some more lore and set up (chiefly I need to write out the Council positions that some players can start with, a map for everyone so we aren't using amorphous blobs in our heads and ideally a description of what the capital is like plus some NPCs.) I also just got both a booster shot and a flu shot today and considering how fucking hard the first shot hit me, there's a 50/50 chance I'm going to be out of action for at least a day as I pray to 7 different gods to end my pain (true story).

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Since this is also the first post of a new page, this is more directed at everyone. Here is what I have planned so far in terms of a plot (posting for thoughts and feedback).

1) The RP will start with a royal funeral for the King and (mostly) the Crown Prince. Since this is a huge event, everyone is invited and the Great Houses are sort of expected to come. Character meetings and introductions will be here and any initial plotting or gossiping can be done.

1.5) Free area for people to send letters, ravens, or messengers/meetings to other characters.

2) Everyone will then get an invitation to a tournament by an NPC/Grand Marshal/important figure as both something to take everyone's minds off the death and to try and convene to pick a new King of Adanion. Both of the claimants will be there and Sharles will even take part in jousting to try and show he has martial skill. A pro-Anyamara opponent faces off against him and in the process severely wounds him by accident but Sharle's supporters will cry bloody murder and say it was an attempt at assassination. Sharles is promptly withdrawn from the tournament and the whole thing goes south after that.

2.5 ) Free RP. Sharles will attempt to bring the still neutral Royal Guard to his side to protect him after the "assassination attempt" but the Captain of the Guard refuses and after contemplation, declares that he will stand for Anyamara as she at least has some direct royal blood in her which Sharles does not, prompting Sharles to create his own Guard and the basis of a his own council and army.

3) One of the Royal Guard actually tries to betray Anyamara and cut her down when they're alone, proclaiming "the throne will not have two mad dogs!" only for him to be killed without killing Anyamara. No one actually knows why the Guard did it, but just like with Sharles at the tournament, Anyamara's supporters think Sharles obviously put the man up to it despite not really having proof and things only escalate from there.

(There will be light time skips in the free RP sections, mostly so there's a balance of realism about messages and meetings not happening instantly and of expediency since we probably don't need to RP every single day. These are also just major plot points used to keep the story moving and not meant for railroading, you will still be free to politick and plot and build relationships as you wish.)

[Kalleth]

@ClocktowerEchos I'd be interested in joining if that's alright with you. I've just got two questions before I start creating my sheets;

1. Are there dragons?
2. Seriously, there'd better be fuckin Dragons!!! Actually, the continent Adanion is located on, what range of environments are there? Does it straddle the planet's equator? Is it more cold, temperate, or tropical? (Asking if I can create a Dorne-like but with more JUNGLE)

[Saix]

@DegenerateThree A common misconception about the Old Norse people, funnily enough, is that they were all white. DNA evidence suggests that they had a great deal of ethnic diversity, with ancestry from hunter-gatherers and farmers from across the Eurasian steppe in addition to the Nordic regions. This article goes into a bit more detail about it, if you want to take a look at it for ideas to refine your CS.

@BCTheEntity

I find this quite interesting as that specific news article doesn’t say that the Norse weren’t white, just that they weren’t primarily or solely Scandinavian. They had a genetic diversity that spanned across Europe, which has a white skin tone. If you look into any human skin adaption study, you will see that human skin color heavily correlates with levels of UV radiation. Areas inhabited by humans with higher levels of UV radiation (i.e near the equator) all had darker, more melanin rich skin. Europe in any one of these maps fall into the lighter skin regions.

I would certainly like to read peer reviewed journal articles that show otherwise.

[TheRedWatcher]

Yeah, I wasn't arguing about the skin tone, my character is obviously painted his skin is not even white under the paint. That was not the issue at all. It wasn't about the white skin. I just brought up that the Key details, the Uniquer features were too similar. In writing when you're designing a character, when designing characters you often have unique features to distinguish characters:
-the one with glasses
-the one with the scar
-the one with the fake leg

The core details are different but if someone had to quickly boil down someone they aren't going to go "the lithe, but skinny muscular stringy dude, who looks rough, and is rude, who is tall comes from the sea" What is the feature the character is going to be boiled down to? What is the signature feature, a tattoo, a scar, or into this case blending into their environment.

But since we are on this topic, about skin tone and whiteness. I am going to say that I am a little uncomfortable with the amounts of white washing in this RP already. It seems Degenerate Three did the research anyway about Vikings and still chose to not recognize that it is an Occupation, not an ethnicity and decide to make a pure white group of pale seafaring people. Despite the evidence to the contrary.

And earlier there is a character who is clearly a Romanian woman, with the saturation, and description is being depicted as a typical English White Woman.

Europe was never that homogenous during the medieval period. In fact, the influences that I chose for Merta's clan were Romanian, Slovakian, and some Asian influences. My people are are probably more Asian European, than they are just pure white people.

[Songster Gecko]

@TheRedWatcher

...I said it before, I know it's an occupation, I just wanted something semi-fantasy. That's it. Before I get any more accusations thrown my way, can I just say that I do know a thing or two about how Viking-era Scandinavia wasn't as homogenous as it's made out to be? I, at the very least, know about Ibn Fadlan's work as an explorer to the region so yes, it's perfectly fine for Vikings to not be all white.

All I wanted to do was just make a fantasy peoples. That's all there is to it. I'm pretty sure most people know that medieval Europe wasn't as homogenous as once believed as well. At least, I've taken history lectures and didn't meet a person who truly, honestly, whole-heartedly, non-ironically spout such BS.

Regardless, I'm redoing stuff from the ground up using what I had with the SK as a baseplate, so the point is moot.

[BCTheEntity]

@Saix Further research has brought to mind two morearticles to peruse. The NatGeo article in particular provides more distinct evidence of darker skin tones.

And uh, real talk, what TheRedWatcher said above as well. There are a hella lot of white European characters in this, especially with features that are not specifically UK/West European in form; but ultimately, the actual concern isn't even race, but in similarities between the two characters that make them hard to distinguish between in a pinch. What's the most prominent aspect of both leaders? Very pale skin, light blue eyes. You don't want to have to use more than two distinguishing features to, well, distinguish between characters, I'd suggest.

[TheRedWatcher]

@TheRedWatcher

...I said it before, I know it's an occupation, I just wanted something semi-fantasy. That's it. Before I get any more accusations thrown my way, can I just say that I do know a thing or two about how Viking-era Scandinavia wasn't as homogenous as it's made out to be? I, at the very least, know about Ibn Fadlan's work as an explorer to the region so yes, it's perfectly fine for Vikings to not be all white.

All I wanted to do was just make a fantasy peoples. That's all there is to it. I'm pretty sure most people know that medieval Europe wasn't as homogenous as once believed as well. At least, I've taken history lectures and didn't meet a person who truly, honestly, whole-heartedly, non-ironically spout such BS.

Regardless, I'm redoing stuff from the ground up using what I had with the SK as a baseplate, so the point is moot.

@DegenerateThree

So. White Person is a fantasy now? Because that is what you're saying by saying; "all I wanted to do was make a fantasy people's". Apparently those Colonizer History lessons did you well, because if you had any ounce of understanding that generally in fantasy that other Ethnicities are often erased, our histories are not told, we're not even shown to have exist. And people who "just want to create a fantasy race" prefer to create the White People, and argue about semantics, instead of considering making an ethnically diverse group based on Vikings.

[ClocktowerEchos]

@Kalleth No dragons, this is pretty grounded in non magic. As for climate, I was originally thinking of a shape like France, mountains on three sides and a coast. Still need to actually make a map, but it's probably not going to be the size of Westeros.

[ClocktowerEchos]

@TheRedWatcher I am going to ask very nively that this point be dropped. Posts have been made, knowledge has been shared and there is also a change/solution in place. While I do agree with your points, for the sake of civility I ask that everyone involved just take a step back and take a breather.

[Kalleth]

Cool, is it alright if I join in then?

[ClocktowerEchos]

@Kalleth Sure thing, I would keep your jungle Dorne idea tho in the back of your head. I'm going to be throwing up a shitty map soon so everyone has something to work with.

[Songster Gecko]

@TheRedWatcher

No, I didn't mean that.

And before you go on about colonialism, let me inform you that my entire family has lived under colonial rule at some point. My grandfather was essentially a second-class citizen who couldn't even step foot in London without permission because he was, as his birth certificate put it, a 'colonial subject' rather than a citizen. On the other side of my family, they saw what foreign concessions could do to their land, what it's like to be a considered worst than dirt where you grew up.

So don't come to me and talk to me about 'colonising lessons'.

It was just a fantasy thing. I wrote a brief overview. If there was going to be any other races, I could always put it in at some point. It wasn't exclusionary. But believe what you will. I don't want to argue. I don't want my blood to boil, and I sure as hell don't want to be arguing about white-washing and colonial history when I live in a place where colonialism is still in living memory, when my experiences growing up is to see my own culture and people patronised and condescended to.

You know what? I'm done. I'm so, so done. Do what you want, believe what you want. I don't care. I'm out.

[Kalleth]

If there's the potential for another continent to be in play, my Great House could have colonies there, which could create an opportunity to include more tropical environments, or I could just lean into southern France / Spain's already fairly hot temperatures.

[DELETED32084]

@Kalleth, Steinland is basically the South of France and North of Spain.

[TheRedWatcher]

Tone = Genuine and Calm

I am sorry guys. I didn't mean to get so heated about the situation.

[Kalleth]

@Pagemaster How about I do something Portugalesque, a Rump-State to Steinland? Would that be alright?

[Saix]

@BCTheEntity Both articles and their originating peer reviewed scientific article did not suggest that Vikings had darker skin tones, or at least as dark as you’re seemingly referring to when suggesting they weren’t white. It is supporting the argument that Vikings weren’t blonde haired and blue eyed Scandinavian people, but rather more genetically diverse people with differing hair and eye colors that are seen across other European countries which in turn supports that they had complex trading, settling, and raiding networks across Europe contrary to what was previously believed. Their arguments are about the Vikings ethnic background, not their race.

[ClocktowerEchos]

<Snipped quote by DegenerateThree>

So. White Person is a fantasy now? Because that is what you're saying by saying; "all I wanted to do was make a fantasy people's". Apparently those Colonizer History lessons did you well, because if you had any ounce of understanding that generally in fantasy that other Ethnicities are often erased, our histories are not told, we're not even shown to have exist. And people who "just want to create a fantasy race" prefer to create the White People, and argue about semantics, instead of considering making an ethnically diverse group based on Vikings.

@TheRedWatcher

This does not convey "genuine and calm", this conveys "I have the moral high ground and you should know better" with a mix of "reeeeeeee".

It is not your tone that is the issue here, it your complete inability to be mature and let go. @DegenerateThreebasically said "I get your point and we should just drop this because I'm redoing my stuff so this point is no longer relevant" and you decided to give someone a lecture. If you want to think of it that way, you "won" and you still felt the need to press on like a child. I'm assuming you can read previous posts so you could clearly tell that this topic was on the way out and that there was already something boiling so something prevented you from being able to read a room.

While I can accept your apology, I am going to very politely ask you to leave.

[Songster Gecko]

<Snipped quote by TheRedWatcher>

This does not convey "genuine and calm", this conveys "I have the moral high ground and you should know better" with a mix of "reeeeeeee".

It is not your tone that is the issue here, it your complete inability to be mature and let go. @DegenerateThreebasically said "I get your point and we should just drop this because I'm redoing my stuff so this point is no longer relevant" and you decided to give someone a lecture. If you want to think of it that way, you "won" and you still felt the need to press on like a child. I'm assuming you can read previous posts so you could clearly tell that this topic was on the way out and that there was already something boiling so something prevented you from being able to read a room.

While I can accept your apology, I am going to very politely ask you to leave.

@ClocktowerEchos

I'm just back here to say this, don't kick anyone on my account, please. It's not going to make anything better; it's only going to add to the discord that's already present. Let @TheRedWatcher stay. What happened was between us. RP-wise, they're good with what they're doing so there's no need for them to go.

Again, I just want to re-iterate. We had a disagreement. We argued. Things got heated, I got fed-up and decided that it's better if I just stepped away.

[ClocktowerEchos]

@DegenerateThree If they want to than its their prerogative, the door is back open for them now. But my point about maturity and being able to read a room still stands.

I have enough things on my list of things to do that watching an argument about racial politics in fictional writing and roleplay isn't one of them. I already have enough classes on it irl.