The Status Bar

[BrokenPromise]

Is the status bar a useful tool that benefits the community, something that’s just there, or something that actively hurts the community?

I fall into the camp of people who believes that the status bar could be made better, like default to a hidden state. While I do believe it has merits, it has doing far more harm than good.

I’m aware you can hide the status bar, but it reveals itself over time. Moreover, it's out there in the public eye. Someone who has yet to register for an account can see the status bar and everything that goes on there. This is why it would be good if it was hidden by default. At least that way people have to actively look for it.

People occasionally use the status bar for status updates, but I feel they don't need to be broadcast to the forum at large. They would be just as useful if they only showed up on your profile. That's where I'd look if you were slow to post. Barring that, you could also just write something at the top of your Bio.

What’s that? You want to advertise your new RP? Directly below the status bar we have two other bars that show the newest interest checks and roleplays. I can't speak for everyone, but I've gotten to the point where I don't know why I click on status bar RP advertisements. Half the time it's in a sub section I don't feel like participating in, and the other half it's something I'm not interested in. We have sections dedicated to interest checks, and are sorted by tags and writing level. But if you must have a status bar, a user interested in joining a new RP could just unhide it.

Some people say we just need mods, but the regular mods are our status bar mods. They've been doing a good job, but they have real lives and things do crop up in their absence.

But what are your thoughts?

Edit: The title has been made less click-baity, and I adjusted how I worded my stance slightly.

[Izurich]

A troll’s gonna troll, Bro. You remove the status bar, they’ll find other avenues for trolling, such as posting “venting” threads, are we going to remove the ability to post threads too?

What I personally wish is for people to stop feeding the troll and just ignore them. Your attention is exactly what they want.

[Yankee]

I kind of like the status bar when it's being used for it's actual purpose. You know, posting your current status. Maybe a small joke here and there. But the problem is people use it like a chatroom. Even when it doesn't devolve into fighting, people having a nice civil conversation on it defeats the point of the status bar and pushes actual statuses down. Also leads to people not checking it and thus missing news. I use the status bar to post if I'm gonna be away for a lil bit rather than making a ton of OOC posts, but that could be buried under other people using it as a chat.

I'm not sure if it's people used to forums having IRC, or people completely unused to forums and missing the discord at the top, but... It is what it is I guess. And I mean, I've definitely used it to reply to someone else's status once or twice so I'm not entirely blameless either lol.

I think a lot of people might tell you they actually like seeing the drama on it, though

A troll’s gonna troll, Bro. You remove the status bar, they’ll find other avenues for trolling, such as posting “venting” threads, are we going to remove the ability to post threads too?

What I personally wish is for people to stop feeding the troll and just ignore them. Your attention is exactly what they want.

Actually there have been vent threads in the past, but understandably they were locked after a certain point and I believe they aren't allowed anymore? Not entirely sure on that.

---

Edit; oh I forgot to add, as far as if I think it's hurting the community - I say no, because overall it does show that people are active on the site with just a quick glance and possibly lead to growing the community. Obviously you could check the actual RP sections and see that but for anyone just peeking in, the status bar is right there. But I definitely understand the concern when said people peek in and see an active mess lol, which leads back to your last point about moderation. It's tricky.

[Izurich]

That’s why I put quotation marks on “venting” because it’s such a hilariously obvious troll attempt for attention if someone makes them nowadays.

[Carlyle]

This is just a repurposed "does the discord hurt/help the community?" argument, which means we'll be going in circles here because nothing will fundamentally change on the guild but:

Personally, I don't think removing the status bar is worth it given that unregistered/newbie members can browse threads too and see everything that goes on there. The same people who post there post on the forum, after all. Hiding it automatically? Maybe, that could work if people are worried the status bar is scaring people away.

Alternatively and to better fit your own opinions, it could—and this would require Mahz to show up again—be updated like RPN has their statuses. Their status are profile-only that people can reply to, which would remove the concerns of entire convos being had on the status bar. And if people really miss the traditional status bar, you can still see a list of new/recent statuses, it just isn't on the front page.

@Izurich@Yankee vent threads are perma banned on RPG. They have been dor several years by now. Whenever one happens the mods auto lock it as soon as one is able.

[Dark Cloud]

I think certain people are using it to "hurt" the community, but I enjoy watching people try really it's a futile effort and I find it god damn amusing. It is a matter of opinion though.

[BrokenPromise]

You remove the status bar, they’ll find other avenues for trolling, such as posting “venting” threads, are we going to remove the ability to post threads too?

@Izurich

Vent threads are banned FYI.

But a venting thread is like a poster, where a status bar is more like a chat overlay in an MMO that has no permanent off button. I can ignore a poster easily enough. A chat overlay on the other hand pushes anything interesting off the front page as soon as a flame war breaks out. I don't find them similar at all.

—and this would require Mahz to show up again—

@Kuro

Yea, which is why I think defaulting to hidden would be for the best, because anything beyond that is going to require Mahz to look over the code. Hell, even that might be beyond the capabilities of the mod team. But I'm more looking for people's opinions than a fix.

[SleepingSilence]

Is the status bar a useful tool that benefits the community?

People use the status bar for status updates.

I fall into the camp of people who believe that the status bar should be removed. Half the time it's in a sub section I don't feel like participating in, and the other half it's something I'm not interested in.

I’m aware you can hide the status bar.

Some people say we just need mods, but the regular mods are our status bar mods.

You actively hurt a community by rewarding, ignoring, or worse yet, encouraging bad behavior.

And punishing people who do nothing wrong, or selectively at a whim.

Two things that have been done for years on end. Let's be frank.

And getting rid of a site tool that can be used for its intended well-meaning purposes, as the post admits to. Sounds like punishing people for the actions of a few. Instead of simply ya know, punishing the few.

I mean the post doesn't even argue about trolling, or even those who spam there. It's main point is how you aren't interested in what's put there. Good or bad. So you want it removed entirely. Sounds...reasonable?

Sure, I feel like there's a few other things that I would've asked for first. A time machine, perhaps. (Since 'the nonsense conversation turned into petty snipes problem' was solved when we still had the active chat room.)

But that's just my two cents...

[Izurich]

<Snipped quote by Izurich>

Vent threads are banned FYI.

But a venting thread is like a poster, where a status bar is more like a chat overlay in an MMO that has no permanent off button. I can ignore a poster easily enough. A chat overlay on the other hand pushes anything interesting off the front page as soon as a flame war breaks out. I don't find them similar at all.

@BrokenPromise

I know, hence:

That’s why I put quotation marks on “venting” because it’s such a hilariously obvious troll attempt for attention if someone makes them nowadays.

@Izurich

Also pretty much this:

And getting rid of a site tool that can be used for its intended well-meaning purposes, as the post admits to. Sounds like punishing people for the actions of a few. Instead of simply ya know, punishing the few.

@SleepingSilence

And I know it's a pipe dream, but if people would just stop feeding the troll, they'll fade away on their own, what they want is your attention and some people are giving them exactly what they want.

[BrokenPromise]

I mean the post doesn't even argue about trolling, or even those who spam there.

@SleepingSilence

Why would I "argue" about something we all agree on? I'm looking for insight, not an echo chamber. I'm sure we can all agree flame wars = the suck, yea?

And I know it's a pipe dream, but if people would just stop feeding the troll, they'll fade away on their own, what they want is your attention and some people are giving them exactly what they want.

@Izurich

For better or for worse, RPG has always been a pretty lax place where mods are chill and don't aggressively hand out ban sentences. And when they do, they are always appealed. The result is that there are no real repercussions for bad behavior, but also users can breathe a little easier and don't need to worry about rule lawyering mods unless they really ask for it. I don't think that's a bad thing, but it does become a problem when you have a system that can easily be abused such as the status bar. The much easier solution would be to hold users more accountable, but I don't see that happening.

[Dark Cloud]

Alas tis the oldest plight of the Internet itself: To troll or not to troll, that tis the question... One must ask themselves at some point if their going too far, letting something as harmless as well-meaning advice turn into a misunderstanding and thus be misconstrued as an insult. Anything can offend anyone if words aren't chosen carefully.

[Izurich]

The much easier solution would be to hold users more accountable, but I don't see that happening.

@BrokenPromise

I’d very much like to see that happen. Sacrificing the status bar due to the actions of a few occasional troll is like using a flamethrower to kill a spider in your house IMHO.

Punish the troll, and not the avenue they used for trolling. Punish the drunk drivers, not banning everyone from using cars.

Alas tis the oldest plight of the Internet itself: To troll or not to troll, that tis the question... One must ask themselves at some point if their going too far, letting something as harmless as well-meaning advice turn into a misunderstanding and thus be misconstrued as an insult. Anything can offend anyone if words aren't chosen carefully.

@Dark Cloud

Do you realize that trolls never actually asked for advice? They want attention and thus they ignore advisors and goad those who react negatively against them, because causing drama and conflict has been their goal from the very beginning.

[BrokenPromise]

Though there are people who are way too easy to offend who might as well be trolls. It's a vicious cycle.

[Dark Cloud]

<Snipped quote by Dark Cloud>

Do you realize that trolls never actually asked for advice? They want attention and thus they ignore advisors and goad those who react negatively against them, because causing drama and conflict has been their goal from the very beginning.

@Izurich

I won't disagree with you there but you should remember not every so-called 'troll' is exactly the same. Now I'm not saying it's okay but as someone who has trolled people to a lesser extent, I will say that a lot of people (not enough people though) know when to stop trolling someone and understand that they've taken it too far.

[Izurich]

Though there are people who are way too easy to offend who might as well be trolls. It's a vicious cycle.

@BrokenPromise

Same difference. Both thrives off the negative attention, the best method is to just ignore them, not feeding them.

<Snipped quote by Izurich>

I won't disagree with you there but you should remember not every so-called 'troll' is exactly the same. Now I'm not saying it's okay but as someone who has trolled people to a lesser extent, I will say that a lot of people (not enough people though) know when to stop trolling someone and understand that they've taken it too far.

@Dark Cloud

Of course, but I think you know what I meant by the term 'troll', I meant actual internet trolls getting off on other's anger, grief, and frustration, actual trolls, the classic definition of trolls, the OGs, not just some light banter or pranks.

[SleepingSilence]

Why would I "argue" about something we all agree on? I'm looking for insight, not an echo chamber.

@BrokenPromise

Sure. But then, if we go by that reasoning. It implies you mentioned strict negatives you do want others to agree with, yes?

So how is, "This status bar does what it's supposed to do sometimes, I know. But I simply have little interest in what is posted there." Supposed to convince somebody else, whose more likely to use it for its intended purpose, or is interested in the many various things that you happened not to be?

Especially, when the best solution for the personal pet peeves you've mentioned, is given in the post itself? (I.E. 'Don't find any of it personally appealing?' Hide it.)

* * *

I mean, helk. I wholeheartedly agree with 'somethings don't need to broadcasted on the front page'. (Such as the people who post "My current excuse for why I haven't bothered posting to my groups and individuals this time is." posts.) Which would indeed be far better suited to the threads and PMs of the people they're actually RPing with. So their partners might actually see it.

But it's still a status update. So it's my pet peeve alone. (And I certainly wouldn't ask for the status bar to be auto-hidden for it. Because, aside from satisfying me. Who does that help?)

* * *

And sure, I could go into further critical detail. Suggesting that the site displaying five new roleplays and interest checks at the bottom, does so very little to boost a person's RP traffic. Compared to advertising it at the top of the front page.

Particularly when people once flooded the 1x1 interest check page, with six different threads made the same person. Or back when the site was actually thriving, and created five new free/casual RP'S in a day. (Thus, those who made something a mere few days prior, probably wanted and still needed a few more interested eyeballs.) Hence, why advertising in the status bar is perfectly legitimate. As far as I'm concerned.

Though, even if you disagree with that sentiment. Surely, there's bigger problems for the moderators and users at large to deal with, yeah?

* * *

But to not touch the moderator statement with the fifty or so hindsight responses I have. I suppose, I'll reiterate/rephrase someone else's point that I agree with.

You remove the status bar for misuse. And the abusers will find a new method/avenue for their efforts.

@Izurich

Don't have much else to add, really.

[BrokenPromise]

Sure. But then, if we go by that reasoning. It implies you mentioned strict negatives you do want others to agree with, yes?

@SleepingSilence

Nah, I figure everyone knows what's wrong with the status bar. It can be a sewer sometimes, we just disagree on how much of a sewer it is and if it warrants removal/changes. That's evident just reading the posts here. I don't have enough pride in my views to think I know what's best for the forum, I just wanna see people talk about it and see if anything comes up. There's already been some insightful posts by people who are addressing the problem instead of my opinion of it.

[Lord Orgasmo]

Maybe something akin to a cooldown could help? Like you can only post a status every 20 or so minutes. It would probably help reduce flooding with conversations, and allow more time for actual statuses to remain there.

[Dark Cloud]

@Lord Orgasmo I think only Mahz would have been able to do that.

[FamishedPants]

The 'drama' that goes on in the status bar honestly doesn't seem serious enough to warrant any significant action to be taken against it. You can always first try the more reasonable solution of 'just moderate better LMAO' if it does become serious enough. In this case, I do think the status bar makes the site feel more alive. While I often do not participate in it, I do not want to see it removed for what is essentially some baby-tier trolling.