[OOC] Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

[Dinh AaronMk]

So, the war could still have got on; but, Poland didn't annex Ukraine. I mean, whatever is the best. You're the GM after all.

@Rare

No, political union would still have occurred. That's cannon. What's up in the air is the details of the war. How long it lasted, how deep Hungary got before Poland came in, and more importantly: why it happened. I think a few assumptions could be made about the status of Ukraine post-Empire. With the collapse of the Imperial regime in Moscow, Ukraine lost the resources needed to really defend itself. The fall of the Empire made them independent, but it didn't give them a foundation and it was sudden. Five years on and things aren't all that great for them with no foreign aid helping. So invasion happens and they get their ass whipped. At some point the situation gets so threatening Poland steps in to keep a regional balance of power. Being fresh they managed to reverse the Hungarian invasion, and supply the beaten Ukrainian militia-army enough they can do more. Together they throw Hungary out concessions are made, likely enforced by Poland. Presumably Poland having saved them from the dirty imperialist Hungarians would probably make union popular, and it happens in the events following the invasion. In all I imagine it could play out across a year or year and a half maybe with a few significant urban engagements before the fates re-align. Though probably not canonical anymore Ukraine briefly occupied the Moscow region of Russia but gave it up to the Republic in Yekaterinburg at some point. This could be framed in the context of before, during, or immediately after the war.

[Pepperm1nts]

Nah. Polekraine is a thing.

[Dinh AaronMk]

Nah. Polekraine is a thing.

@Pepperm1nts

Yea, it's gotta stay a thing at this point.

[Rare]

Nah. Polekraine is a thing.

@Pepperm1nts

Thank god for borders!

[Space Communist]

Nah. Polekraine is a thing.

@Pepperm1nts

Yea, it's gotta stay a thing at this point.

@Dinh AaronMk

POLAN CAN INTO STRONK UNION WITH UKRAINE Also, any word on the lore discussion/changes for North America?

[Jeddaven]

Dzien dobry, motherfuckers.

[Dinh AaronMk]

Nah. Polekraine is a thing.

@Pepperm1nts

Yea, it's gotta stay a thing at this point.

@Dinh AaronMk

POLAN CAN INTO STRONK UNION WITH UKRAINE Also, any word on the lore discussion/changes for North America?

@Space Communist

I saw Byrd lurking. But he ain't turned on Steam. I'll corner him at some point.

[Pepperm1nts]

If you are rejoining as Poland, know that I am making a post where Freddy meets with your leader (Plawgo). The conclusion of said meeting has already been decided, so I am going to be going through with it.

[TheEvanCat]

Polan is also best friends with Armenia.

[Dinh AaronMk]

Polan is also best friends with Armenia.

@TheEvanCat

Armenia also need to post. Should we call you the new Hugs?

[TheEvanCat]

Polan is also best friends with Armenia.

@TheEvanCat

Armenia also need to post. Should we call you the new Hugs?

@Dinh AaronMk

I have 20,000 characters in another tab, bitch.

[Rare]

I might as well as start on my second post.

[Dinh AaronMk]

Alright Revan, Byrd got back from his second shift and we were able to go through it. Firstly: The depression of the twenties would have still been a thing from America. American over-mass production coupled with the end of the Great War would have caused the world economy to pop like a bubble, more so than it did. And if the US in its current lore had wide-spread economic troubles than Mexico for sure could not have weathered the economic storm with only a few recessions along the way. They would have suffered in the post-war years with everyone, trying to stay afloat in a market flooded with resources and materials intended for use in Europe and the battle front. But with no more war all those raw materials and other supplies joined an over abundance of everything to further crash the world's banks. So no, you can't have weathered economic depressions. Mexico can still be a decent economy, but not the regional best when dealing with America. This carries to second point sort of, where Mexico then shouldn't be strong enough to deal with Florida. But it wasn't really Florida, it was the deep south in general. Byrd made the point to say as well that Mexico involving itself in US affairs would be an invitation for the US to later involve itself in Mexican affairs more seriously. It's not really a thing nations do. Not to mention they wouldn't really be a big enough power to make anything out of it. So none of that. Of minor note too was the Catholic uprising. Byrd's fine with the American involvement as it is. Though he also added that they probably would have carried out minor expeditions into Mexico like they did when chasing down Pancho Villa. But it wouldn't have been serious. And as a reminder: Mexico joined the Third International alongside the US. Although the US got kicked out for annexing the Cascades territory Mexico remains. Just a something. This was also carried out in witness by Mihn. The post-war depression bit is about old enough now to not matter in the current time-frame. But if it's going to factor in the application then it needs to come up.

[Meiyuuhi]

I hope that someone posts soon, so I can post again. My posts will be reactions to Serbia joining the Iberian League.

@Rare

Writing one as we speak, should finish before midnight... hopefully.

Yeah, you can punish thank Mihn for bringing me back in.

@Space Communist

Yeah, yeah. And I'd just like to add that Mexico's population would probably be around 125 million, if immigration due to Europe being screwed up and emigration from Mexico with it being a socialist state about canceled out. This would be in comparison to America's ~200 million and Brazil's 160 million, so Brazil and America would have roughly comparable economies (American probably slightly ahead) given that America suffered some serious destruction and Mexico could be close-ish behind but hardly first-rate, purely in size of economy. It would probably be fairly close in development to Brazil but still naturally a ways behind America.

[Dinh AaronMk]

At the same time thought there is nationalism and refugees immigrating from Europe would have emigrated back when things got better. After all, there are people who lived posh, well educated lives here returning to Somalia because they feel they should be there.

[Stale Pizza]

Since I'm still a bit mixed up with the current PoW canon, I'll just edit it to fit both Ducky's application (partly) and the lore. Nation: Republic of Slovene-Croatia Leader: Andrej Dvornik ( 7th President of Slovene-Croatia ) History: While they were occupied by Austria-Hungary for the most of the nineteenth century, the Northern Balkan areas, which mostly had a majority of Croats and Slovenes, Slovenia and Croatia had been much less involved or interested with the activities of Slavic terrorist groups, one of them being the Serbian Black Hand. The Croats and Slovenes already had their own national movement before the turn of the century, and while they were divided between the conservative Old Slovenes / Croats and the more progressive Young Slovenes / Croats, the area as a whole had establish several reforms, such as standardization literary languages and modernized primary education. Their dislike against the Serbians increased as the Great War began, and despite the Serbian radicals talk over unification of the Balkan Slavs, the Croats and Slovenes refused. The Balkan countries were unfortunately affected by the Great War, with battles continuously occurring in their country, often causing the destruction of many cities and loss of lives as some were conscripted by their dominating country. Later, in the midst of the Great War in 1922, it seemed that the Slovenes and Croats, like several other ethnic groups part of the former Austria-Hungary Empire, was caught in confusion and uncertainty as Hungary split from Austria and the Austria-Hungary Empire was dissolved. For a few years after the war, Slovenia and Croatia remained as part of the Austria, despite Slovenia and Croatia's hopes of independence after the Great War. Their pleas were refused, and while Slovenia and Croatia were seen as an autonomous region, the sudden executions of the Serbian Royal Family caused Austria suppress Slovenia and Croatia with military force in fears of a similar uprising. Austria had its own problems, however, as after the Great War, Austria was in ruins, with her economy collapsing from war debts. Currency rapidly decreased in value, making even basic goods difficult to purchase. Slovene and Croat nationalist took advantage of this opportunity and furthered their protests, occupying key governmental buildings and demanding independence. While Austria was not willing to give up their land, they also did not want to cause international outrage, especially near increasingly militaristic neighbors. Rather hastily, the two states were given independence in 1926 by the Brijuni Agreements. Slovenia's first president, Franc Lavric was elected a few months after the agreements; he was 46 at his inauguration. Lavric wanted the economically-damaged Slovenia into a modern republic, pushing for women's rights, a shift form agriculture to commerce and industry, and improvements on the rail networks. While some of his radical reforms were not taken lightly from more conservative Slovenes, it had appeal to the population who was still having difficulties recovering. Lavric continued to remain on the presidency until the Slovene-Croat reunification. Croatia had Ivan Kovacic. They shared a border with the less stable Bosnia, and had an increasingly militaristic Serbia just past that. There were fears of Serbian invasion; Kovacic wanted to keep Bosnia as a buffer zone, and advised by Rear Admiral Vukovic, increased his navy and army size in reaction to the "Serbian Scare". The scare, however, set racial equality movements backward, as Croatian-Serbs were discriminated against and forced down to a second-class citizen level. Riots were frequent. In 1935, however, Kovacic was revealed to be involved with weapon deals with certain businesses, which plummeted his popularity. Kovacic shortly resigned and was replaced by Ivo Rogoz, who was more moderate and focused on national affairs. Kovacic warned of the potential tension between Croatia and Serbia before he left office (he died in 1951). Serbia's invasion proved Kovacic's fears correct as they launched attacks against Albania and Macedonia. The wars shocked both Slovenia and Croatia; in 1946, they met together in Trieste for a conference toward the matter. After weeks of debates, Slovenia and Croatia finally agreed to become a "dual republic"; while one president would run Slovene-Croatia, Slovenia and Croatia were two separate administrative divisions and could run their own governments at a smaller level. Lavric was chosen to run Slovene-Croatia as its first president up to 1948, as the Slovene-Croatian Democratic Party (SHDS) ;he was followed by Leon Rusjan. Rusjan furthered Lavric's goals; he made some modifications to the Slovenian and Serbo-Croatian written languages to make it possible for both Slovenes and Croats to read. He also attempted to increase literacy rates by making nine-year primary / secondary school compulsory. Outside of educational reforms, he also established a minimum wage. In 1971, Miroslav Gazi, the fifth president of Slovene-Croatia, did a shocking action – in response to the newly appointed Dragan leading Serbia and persecuting of leftist and far leftist, Gazi decided to allow those Serbian party members to enter Slovene-Croatia. Gazi, however, ended up worsening the Slovene-Croatian and Serbian relations even further. This was further intensified by Gazi's refusal to even meet the dictator. Ultimately, Gazi's actions were met in disapproval, and he lost reelection in 1972. For the first time in history, the "SHDS dynasty" ended as power transferred to the center-right Democratic Union. 1980 was another switch of power to Dvornik. As the government switched back to the SHDS's, Slovenes and Croatians alike wondered what would happen to the future of their nation as tensions arise.

[Pepperm1nts]

Technically, Slovenia and Croatia didn't gain their independence until the late '70s, when Prussia annexed Austria. It was one of those things that was decided hastily in the timeskip though, and it's not really important. I am not sure why we went with Austria still having Slovenia and Croatia into the '70s, but I think it had something to do with the maps showing that they were still Austrian for whatever reason, so when I had Prussia annex Austria in the timeskip, I mentioned that Slovenia and Croatia were granted their independence. That said, I am willing to accept this change if Aaron doesn't have any problems with it. All I ask is that Prussian relations with Slovene-Croatia are good.

[Space Communist]

Alright Revan, Byrd got back from his second shift and we were able to go through it. Firstly: The depression of the twenties would have still been a thing from America. American over-mass production coupled with the end of the Great War would have caused the world economy to pop like a bubble, more so than it did. And if the US in its current lore had wide-spread economic troubles than Mexico for sure could not have weathered the economic storm with only a few recessions along the way. They would have suffered in the post-war years with everyone, trying to stay afloat in a market flooded with resources and materials intended for use in Europe and the battle front. But with no more war all those raw materials and other supplies joined an over abundance of everything to further crash the world's banks. So no, you can't have weathered economic depressions. Mexico can still be a decent economy, but not the regional best when dealing with America. This carries to second point sort of, where Mexico then shouldn't be strong enough to deal with Florida. But it wasn't really Florida, it was the deep south in general. Byrd made the point to say as well that Mexico involving itself in US affairs would be an invitation for the US to later involve itself in Mexican affairs more seriously. It's not really a thing nations do. Not to mention they wouldn't really be a big enough power to make anything out of it. So none of that. Of minor note too was the Catholic uprising. Byrd's fine with the American involvement as it is. Though he also added that they probably would have carried out minor expeditions into Mexico like they did when chasing down Pancho Villa. But it wouldn't have been serious. And as a reminder: Mexico joined the Third International alongside the US. Although the US got kicked out for annexing the Cascades territory Mexico remains. Just a something. This was also carried out in witness by Mihn. The post-war depression bit is about old enough now to not matter in the current time-frame. But if it's going to factor in the application then it needs to come up.

@Dinh AaronMk

Alright, all of this is fair and good. On the matter of the Great Depression, I assumed it never happened not because I didn't see any mention of it, but because I didn't see any major effects surrounding it. I did not see any major wars, revolutions, or extreme changes that one would expect to result from economic hardship, such as the rise of fascism in Europe after the Great Depression irl. There was quite a lot of mention of these changes in post-war economies like Britain and France, but that was a result of the huge war that had struck the nations, not the depressed trough out of recurring booms and recessions. That's not to say that I don't think there should be any culling of the Great Depression. Like you said, it was so long ago that it doesn't seem to matter anymore, other than the purpose of lore. For Mexico's economy in general, I suggested that it was only one of the best in comparison with most others in North America. That's not to say that it is the best, as there's still the US and Canada ahead of it by a longshot--but perhaps I should have clarified that. Another thing I should mention is the fact that after Canada's invasions and the split of Florida from the Union, both Canada's and the US's economies should have been focused on war production, making Mexico probably a bigger producer of regular goods and services in the region, though again not necessarily moreso than the other two. Concerning the invasion of Florida, cool. I didn't event think it was that big of an involvement to make mention originally, but then I decided on bringing it up because it was on the wiki. Then again, there's a lot of shit in there that needs to be rewritten at some point. I gots to sleep tonight, but I'll have a rewritten sheet with those minor edits tomorrow.

[Chapatrap]

Posted. Might be the last IC post for a few days, I'm afraid. London awaits.

[Stale Pizza]

Technically, Slovenia and Croatia didn't gain their independence until the late '70s, when Prussia annexed Austria. It was one of those things that was decided hastily in the timeskip though, and it's not really important. I am not sure why we went with Austria still having Slovenia and Croatia into the '70s, but I think it had something to do with the maps showing that they were still Austrian for whatever reason, so when I had Prussia annex Austria in the timeskip, I mentioned that Slovenia and Croatia were granted their independence. That said, I am willing to accept this change if Aaron doesn't have any problems with it. All I ask is that Prussian relations with Slovene-Croatia are good.

@Pepperm1nts

I was aware of that as well, but the Balkans had hardly been RPed upon, and since Ducky edited his nation sheet, I wanted to edit mine's to go along. And yeah, relations will be good with with the two.