[OOC] Somethings Can't Be Forgotten

[mamagermany]

Perhaps they do, but I'm fine with either, it's not super important.

I think it'll be more interesting to do him discovering her, perhaps even in the act. We could probably incorporate him starting to have some suspicions that something is off about her. But yes, we can go for him finding her covered in blood, perhaps sometime after reports start surfacing of fresh graves being disturbed around the village.
I keep forgetting that we're not actually RPing this part. I'm just using it to come up with the context of their relationship. This is good, this should work.

*makes secondary character more interesting than main character in only two hours worth of thought*
Oops

There's something we didn't take into consideration with this whole 'feeding' concept. If what makes a vampire is drinking the blood but not draining the body, how does Elizabeth drink from Jaspin (and Jonathan?) without turning them?
Maybe it's a conscious thing, but one that takes a while to master. Like a vampire can actively control the flow of venom, but inexperienced vampires don't know how to do it. That'd explain how a lot of the characters are turned by inexperienced or sloppy vampires, but Elizabeth can feed from him without turning him.

[Love Dove]

I like that idea, in that case I would think that he didn't actually expect that she was a vampire though. At least maybe not until the graves started getting dug up. That could be the reason he came to talk to her.

I really like how you wrote it in your post though. Him kneeling and telling her that it would be alright. I would think that anyone who started questioning if it was Elizabeth he would deter as well.

(Elizabeth drank from Jonathan?) I would think it would be a conscious thing as well, let unless you know what you're doing and how to stop it the venom sets in as soon as their fangs leave the bite. It what take years to master control and a lot of trail and pain to the victims I would think. It would also explain why vampires try to drain the victims completely so they don't turn.

Haha well we just started if you want to change Elizabeth but we still have things to chance and make the main more interesting. The others have all their history written out all the way.

[mamagermany]

That'll work well for their background, I think. The graverobbing thing is because there's no other real way for her to stay in one place for any sustainable time otherwise, right? Attacking live people, even if she didn't turn them, that'd set off a panic in a heartbeat. That idea of Jaspin actively deterring suspicions of Elizabeth if people started getting suspicious - and I would expect people would suspect the new, reclusive, single woman - I love it, how he would defend and protect her.

(Not sure if she drank from him - probably not, but at some point earlier, I considered it a possibility)
Yeah, that patches a lot of potential plot holes.

No, I think I'll keep Elizabeth as she is. More interesting as Bela's backstory is, I think the strength of Elizabeth's will serve the story fine. It's not like she's uninteresting. It was fun to write this response, because I discovered another aspect of Elizabeth, in how she kept thinking 'he's mine, Jaspin's mine', that she's a little unhealthy in her attachment, almost a little abusive in how she makes this choice for him against his will, because she thinks he's her property and he doesn't know what he's good for him. Discovering character is so fun.

[Love Dove]

The graverobbing thing totally made sense, I saw where you were going with that. Because though people would think it was odd it would take them a little bit to realize why I would think. Maybe by then she had Jaspin. I love how he defended her too, it just totally seemed like a Jaspin thing to do. Plus he had already fallen for her by then so.

I'm figuring that the turning would actually be more painful than his sickness. He will likely pass out as weak as he already is.

Okay, I agree she's not uninteresting at all. I actually like Elizabeth a lot. Also I really loved that post. She was a little abusive but the way she did it made a lot of sense. I don't think that Jaspin will even realize what she was doing until he feels the pain. I wonder, is that unhealthy attachment going to keep going? Is it going to be a "I hate him, but you can't have him cause he's mine" type thing?

So the question now is, should Jaspin spend a little as a vampire with Elizabeth before he betrays her? Instead of right away?

[mamagermany]

Will Elizabeth's unhealthy attachment continue on? Will she still continue to see him as hers? Possibly, very likely, even, but for how long, I don't know. They're not going to really meet again for, what, three, four hundred years? Elizabeth's active attachment is going to fade. It has to. Eventually, she'll go days without thinking about him. But once they meet again - I can't say for sure. I'd like to think that by the time they meet again, her obsession won't rekindle in the same way. She will be more independent of him, and she will stay that way. I don't know how jealous she'll get over seeing him with other lady vampires, I'm guessing that she won't get explicitly jealous or possessive unless she sees some possibility that he has feelings for one of them, or one of the girls do for him, if that makes sense. For example, I don't know if she'd get possessive over Violet's relationship with Jaspin, because from how I'm seeing it, there's no romantic tension there. Their relationship is clearly more like a master and his ward.

That being said, I don't know if perhaps Elizabeth will be more prone to interpreting any of Jaspin's relationships with woman as romantic. That's a possibility. I don't know anything for certain until we start playing with them in those contexts. But as I foresee it, I'm pretty sure that by the time they meet again, Elizabeth will have enough control over herself and be over him enough to not go on some 'if I can't have him, nobody can' rampage over Jaspin just having women in his clan.

Right away would probably make more sense. If he betrays her right away, it makes more sense that it's a knee-jerk reaction to this traumatic experience, before he can really get a hold of himself and think about what's really best. For one thing, brand new vampires don't have a ton of self-control. And two, if he had the time to cool down and get his head straight and really think about it, would he still really, with sound mind and body, choose to betray Elizabeth?

[Love Dove]

Makes sense, I didn't figure that it would draw out after that long, but wanted to check and more sure. So than it would be like Jaspin feels about Kilroy, even though they aren't together he is like super jealous. Actually she might have that issue because Abigail has very strong feels for Jaspin.

That's a very good point. He wouldn't do that to Elizabeth if he had time to think more clearly. Plus he will feel horrible for doing it, which really doesn't fit with him thinking clearly about his actions.

[mamagermany]

Abigail has feelings for Jaspin? Well, if the signs of attraction are there, then Elizabeth is going to despise Abigail. It doesn't help that Abigail is younger, prettier, blonder than Elizabeth, that's not going to help at all. I wonder if Elizabeth will even be conscious about it - like, is she going to understand that she's jealous because she still loves Jaspin somewhere deep down?
She'll probably be angry with herself that she still loves him, so I think she'll kind of know.

I think that route will cause more pain for everyone involved. Which is totally what I'm going for, so.

Random thing, I changed Elizabeth's appearance picture. This one feels a little better for her, a little more nuanced.
Goes without saying, of course, that Elizabeth doesn't have the tattoos or the nose ring like in that picture. It's more for the face and hair. And I'll probably post more pictures of her in my Muse thread.

[Love Dove]

Yeah she's a little narcissistic and because Jaspin turned her willingly (which is was more a she caught Violent feeding thing) she thinks he chose her. And is just playing hard to get, because he is sometimes nice to her. He doesn't have those kind of feelings for her but she isn't shy about the fact she does.

Okay sounds good to me :}

I saw that. I like her new picture. I figured she didn't have the tattoos didn't notice the nose piercing.

[mamagermany]

Ooooohhh, that's gonna be really fun to watch. Elizabeth would hate her just observing her flirt with Jaspin, but if he behaves nicely to her for like five seconds.... Yeah, expect to find Abigail dismembered in a ditch somewhere. by the time Elizabeth becomes matriarch of her clan, she is not even remotely in the realm of fucking around.
I'm curious, how long are the clans around each other before Abigail knows Elizabeth is Jaspin's former lover? Or does she know beforehand? Because if that's a discovery she makes, how does she react to Elizabeth after that? Does she flaunt it in her face, or does Elizabeth intimidate her?

Great :)

Her old picture hasn't been working for me for a while anyway.

[Love Dove]

Jaspin is over here sighing going. "I'm going to have to pull Elizabeth off her aren't I?"
Oh she knows about Elizabeth, I'm pretty sure that Violent and Abigail both were before he had fully gotten over Elizabeth and they've heard about her a good bit. Nathaniel was after he was over it though. I think Elizabeth will still intimate her, but she thinks there is no way Jaspin still has feelings for her.

So I can say that I like this picture better too than?

By the way, Elizabeth pulled off Nadya's ring finger?

[mamagermany]

Yes. Yes he will.
How interesting that he still talked about her to his wards for some time. I don't know how much Elizabeth spoke about Jaspin. I would expect that she almost never speaks of him, and only Jonathan and Rowland know anything about him. Rowland, as Elizabeth's confidant, probably knows the most.
But good, intimidation is good. That'll make for such an interesting dynamic.

Yes, you can. I liked some aspects of the old picture but, let's be honest, the old picture is less pretty. The other model is just less pretty.
Also this model gives off more of a mysterious, otherworldly air than the old model. Though I always did enjoy the old model's pissed off expression.

She has another.

[Love Dove]

Haha! That will be fun!

I never said it was good things, but yes. He still felt really guilty about the whole thing. Plus Violet was there when she burnt his house down. Its interesting that Elizabeth never did, I wonder, was that because she was already over him when she started making a family? I find it amusing that in some ways Rowland and Jaspin are alike. They both didn't want to be turned, and were angry when they were. They both ran from Elizabeth.
Oh for sure.

I don't think she was less pretty as much as, she didn't look like the character you were describing to me.
I agree she really does.

Haha, she does.

[mamagermany]

I find the amount of guilt you say Jaspin has about what he did to Elizabeth interesting. Now it makes me want to think, does Elizabeth feel guilty about burning his house down?
I'm gonna venture out on a limb and say no.

Actually, it was kind of the other way around. Making a family is what pushed her to mostly get over him. Raising Jonathan gave her something to focus her love and attention and womanly instincts on. It was a great distraction. But there were probably moments when she couldn't quite get around talking about it, like when lil human Jonathan looks up at his new mother and asks why he doesn't have a father to speak of like most of the other kids.

Okay, I see what you mean.

It was from her wildest days, really doing whatever she wanted without regards for the wellbeing of the clan. After she kept ignoring the safety of the clan, was chased out of a town, and went back to the clan shell-shocked and a bit meeker, Elizabeth broke her finger off for a lesson and permanent reminder of what'll happen if Nadya crosses a line again. She did something similar to Bela. A not-so-subtle reminder that Elizabeth will done out to let her wards know, without doubt, that if they cross the line again and endanger them all, she will kill them.

Needless to say, Nadya has since taken it down a notch.

[Love Dove]

Well of course. I mean you love someone, put all that work into deterring the town from finding out what she is. Just to ruin everything and get her killed because of anger. I figure after she burnt his house down he stopped. Like I said if wasn't all good things.
Are you answering your own question? Haha.

Ah that makes sense. It makes me wonder though. If Jonathan dislikes Jaspin already because of what Elizabeth told him?

Oh ouch! Yeah, I don't blame her one bit. Really though Elizabeth, ouch!

[mamagermany]

I would have been very surprised if he continued to feel guilty about it after she did that. It almost puts them on even ground, emotionally. They're definitely going to kind of hate each other.
I do that way too often. I think I get the question and begin writing it and by the time I've written out the question, I've gotten to the answer.

Elizabeth probably only told him the bare minimum of what happened with her and Jaspin. When they first meet, I imagine Jonathan will have a slight negative bias towards him, then it'll quickly get really negative when he sees how his mother reacts to having him around, then maybe slightly better if he ends up deciphering that Jaspin still loves her.

It's brutal, yes, but Elizabeth isn't in a place to not be brutal. She has all these people to look out for and they're never free from the risk of exposure. She needs to keep very tight reins to keep everything together. I'm willing to bet she's killed, or had Bela or Nadya or Rowland, kill rogue vampires that were hunting in her grounds and risking exposing them all. She's gotta do what she must to keep people in line.

[Love Dove]

Oh yeah after that, they were on even ground for sure. If she ever brought it up he would say something about her being a fan of dramatics (I think that's a word). He did hate her after that for sure.
Haha okay, I do that too sometimes thats why I was asking.

Jaspin is going to be confused and a little angry. Because I see that being one of those things as a human he had wanted but gave up on as he knew Elizabeth couldn't.
Glad to know it isn't like a full out hatred for them though, at first anyway.

Oh don't get me wrong, but still ouch.
Hmm that would an interesting reason for them to meet up again. They both end up hunting in the same town.

[mamagermany]

'Dramatics' oh man, the moment he says that about her, that's going to turn into a fun, fun scene.

Angry because Elizabeth did something human, that he really wanted with her, when he had accepted that it couldn't have happened?
If he really wanted to raise a child with her, I can understand how seeing her say she raised a son would feel like a slap to the face.

That would make sense for them to eventually encounter each other again in that fashion. The way you say hunting though, is that what you're thinking of the Reese clan doing? Going more old-school with hunting humans? That would definitely create conflict between the clans and definitely bring about a confrontation.

[Love Dove]

Hehe I'm sort of hoping so. It will be just to be a dick pretty much.

Yeah that's what I was saying he wanted to have children with her, but she couldn't have them so he just kind of...gave up on the idea when he found out. Because he would have rather had Elizabeth.
Its a huge slap in the face. He's going to be really angry about it.

No, like I said there are going to lure people away too, likely poor or girls from brothels. People that the others wouldn't miss. But they skip a town every time they move.

[mamagermany]

After the shock of all the negative feelings being dredged up about everything else, that's almost a reasonable reaction.

Jeez, is there anything not terrible that's going to happen when they meet face to face? One starts to wonder if they could really reconcile their love after all these horrible things.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember now. My bad.
Still though, that'll be some great conflict, considering the Mercers veer away from outright killing people.

As an idea for how they start coming across each other, I'm thinking Jonathan or Eleanora spots a member of the Reese clan doing their thing with luring people away. They don't have to be caught in the act, because most of the time vampires know other vampires when they see them. But one of them reports the vampire to Elizabeth, and they start with their normal protocol for dealing with other vampires in their territory. Of course, it gets complicated when the Mercers find out they're dealing with a whole clan, and even more complicated when they find who the leader is.
Have you had any ideas about it?

[Love Dove]

I think so too.

Um well, he isn't going to try and hit her, if that makes it better. He might be mad but like Elizabeth he still has the moral code that he did as a human. So there's something. Plus I'm a firm believer that things can be forgiven over time. So they still love each other and are going to be forced together. That gives them time.

The Reeses try to, but they aren't very good at it. When it was just Jaspin, Violet, and Abigail they were going pretty good. Jaspin, almost had it down. But he has three other mouths to feed.

I really like that idea! I don't think that Jaspin's group would really think to look out for another clan at the moment before they are hunting. It will be either Maxen or Simone. Their good hunters.