Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our annoyances.

[Kestrel]

OutlawTorn said if you can't play a character with tons of source material and background?

Assuming you interpret it correctly, are capable of copying it, and either have a perfect memory or are willing to re-watch/read/play a medium just to get the right answer in every stage of the character development you put them through. Yes.

On the other hand, I do agree with you that bitching about everything is kinda shitty, especially because almost nobody ever makes an effort to solve things in a decent way or reflects on their own communication. I personally think it's healthier to actually learn how to prevent or deal with certain issues, or at least find a way they don't bother you so much.

Then again, being productive is hard, isn't it?

Also, millions of tweens around the world agree twilight is the best trilogy ever. That makes them right, right?

Fuck, I'm outta here before I turn even more hypocrite. Hope you don't mind my tone.

[Noxious]

I hate that more people do not smoke marijuana. Get on my level.

[Pachamac]

OutlawTorn said
I find it difficult to hold a conversation with someone who disregards everything I say to make me look like I'm wrong using vague points which are irrelevant to the core subject material.Just go ahead and say I make you uncomfortable because I'm speaking directly to you in this condescending manner. it's not the attitude, but my being right about YOU that bothers you. But don't stoop to petty lows, trying to make me look like the idiot. Anyone here with an IQ over 50 knows it too. So I might not be so liberal about speaking on other's behalf.

Man

what

Noxious pass me some of that marijuana

[Frizan]

LOTS of crazy in this thread. Holy shit.

Oh, and something to get this thread back on track:

Another thing I hate is when people make characters who cover an entire spectrum. Something like "Oh this dude is a total badass who can kill anyone and anything without remorse BUT he's also SUPER vulverable and flawed so you should feel bad for him!"

[Lucian]

OutlawTorn said
I'm actively on 2 other forums.No Pachamac. I'm beginning to feel like this community may need me. Like maybe that's why he was so adamant about my coming of all places. Maybe this is a good thing, your feeling put down by my presence aside, of course. I apologize for being fresh out of fucks to give, but it's been a rough month.

You're an intelligent person, so I'm going to hope this sinks in when I say it,

After that post, nobody here is going to take you the least bit seriously. You must understand how ridiculous you sound.

[Amon Goeth]

My favorite shows on TV have twelve minutes of advertising
I can't get behind that kind of time
Eat quickly, drive faster, make more money now
I can't get behind that

My kids say, "He said to me, and I'm like and he's like and she's like"
It's all, he's all, she's all
I can't get behind that kind of like, English
That'll be six to eight weeks before delivery

The rising oceans, the warming temperatures
The dying polar bears no, tigers in fifty years
Rising poison in the air and water

I can't understand why the price of gas suddenly rises
When oil goes up
But takes months to go down long after oil falls
I can't get behind any of that

I can't get behind the Gods, who are more vengeful, angry, and
Dangerous if you don't believe in them
Why can't all these Gods just get along?
I mean, they're omnipotent and omnipresent, what's the problem?

What's the problem? What about the men who say
"Do as I do, believe in what I say, for your own good
Or I'll kill you", I can't get behind that

I can't get behind that
Everybody knows everything about all of us
That's too much knowledge
I can't get behind that

Yeah, and what about student drivers using my streets to learn?
If you learn to play the drums you got to go to a studio
Go to a parking lot, for God's sake, why are you jeopardizing my life?
I can't get behind a student driver

I can't behind a driver who drives like a student driver
If you're going to drive an urban assault vehicle then get off the phone
And keep your eyes on the road

Lifetime guarantee? Who's lifetime? Not mine
I haven't that much time left, let's make it yours
Everybody's got a longer life than me
The leaf blowers, is there anything more futile?
Car alarms, clap off, clap on, spam

Size matters, no, it doesn't
Yes, it does, no, it doesn't
Yes, it does, no, it doesn't
Yes, it does, no, it doesn't no, it doesn't
Yes, it does! Yes, it does

My phone rings, make millions in minutes
It's a computer, lose inches in hours
Leave me the Hell alone, eat more spend less

The Colonel is breakdancing, give me a break
Credit terms raised
I can't get behind any of that

I can't get behind so-called singers that can't carry a tune
Get paid for talking, how easy is that?
Well, maybe I could get behind that

Well, I can't, if you have to fix it with a computer
Quantized, pitch corrected, and overly inspected
Then you can't do it, and I can't get behind that
I can't get behind a fat ass

[Mysterium]

I dislike the fact that the "1x1" section is almost exclusively dominated by horny teenagers who are only interested in "roleplaying" through personal messages. Surely there is another website solely dedicated to that purpose.

[Derpestein]

I hate it when people go away from an RP for an extended period of time without saying anything and then whine when their character is killed off or the RP continues without them. Fuckin hell, shoulda thought about that before you fuckin left without saying anything!

[Jig]

Frizan said
LOTS of crazy in this thread. Holy shit.Oh, and something to get this thread back on track:Another thing I hate is when people make characters who cover an entire spectrum. Something like "Oh this dude is a total badass who can kill anyone and anything without remorse BUT he's also SUPER vulverable and flawed so you should feel bad for him!"

Or completely on-the-fence information to try to de-flaw their character.

"Has a bit of a temper but not too much."
"Is a bit of a dreamer but is serious when it counts."

or the ubiquitous "When you get over <Trait X>, s/he is a valuable ally."

[Dervish]

Hey random passerby, read this before venturing further:

Don't acknowledge our favorite crusty participant in this thread exists. No amount of responding to him is going to make him change his paper-thin opinions that leave absolutely no room for discussion, so please just carry on like he isn't a thing and use this thread for its intended purpose. You all have better ways to spend your time than responding to someone like that, including the arguably more productive "talking to a pet rock". So don't indulge.

Carry on.

[Prince]

T'is a sad day when beasts must be unchained to fix the folly of man.

I'm Prince. If you don't know me, that's probably for the better. If you do know me, you know this is about to get fun. You're either going to absolutely hate me or applaud for me by the end of this post, and I'm telling you now that I firmly believe the former of those two is the more interesting one. I thrive off of rage, frustration, discomfort; all of those things are, for better or worse, no more than another form of passion that the edified can use to fuel their personal abilities. Allow me to elaborate using a tangible example:

First and foremost, anyone whom believes that no one can write a canon character effectively is, in my opinion, a fucking idiot. I'm going to use logic so basic here that even Mr. Torn is going to appear ignorant in its shadow. It has nothing to do with fan fiction or personal opinion. It has to do with fact. Prior to this post, someone brought up the fact Wolverine has been around for forty some-odd years, and spoiler alert he's destined to die permanently in September in mainstream canon due to losing his healing factor. Shocker, right? Moving on. Wolverine started out as an off-villain for the Hulk and evolved into the character he is today; as a matter of fact, he was supposed to be a mutant Wolverine that turned sentient and humanoid. Fun facts, but again I do digress. There have literally been dozens and dozens of writers for Wolverine in hundreds if not thousands of plotlines, stories, comics, etc. that have all considered those Wolverine variants canon. Canon is a hard concept to pin down, as a matter of fact. Is Earth Prime or Earth-616 canon? Is it what is the most mainstream? Are you going to disregard stories of the Wolverine variants that are so greatly varied from the more mainstream concepts as 'poor interpretations' because you disagree with them? The answer is yes, but it should be no. Wolverine is a character that has been rewrote and retconned (retroactive continuity, for anyone whom actually doesn't know the term; it originates in comics) so many times that he is a concept with little static or concrete information about him. Any player that knows enough about Wolverine and comics knows that two different, yet VERY talented comic writers for Marvel might have Wolverine do completely different things in the same situation. One writer might push individual character development and another may push the collaborative story-telling aspect of every character in terms of a story. These are personal preferences by writers that are in my opinion far superior to us that make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in profit due to their prolific writing styles, and that alone gives them claim to superiority. Fact is, there are dozens of people that have partaken in 'creating' Wolverine through his actual creation and integrating him into the world that became that of The Uncanny X-Men. The ability to play as him effectively is in fact one of skill and personal preference. I could do so, I'm sure, but I choose not to because I don't enjoy playing canon characters; that has nothing to do with skill, that is personal preference.

But, I will move on from that alone. I'm going to bring up to entirely valid points that will later become far more profound. The first is the sheer essence of roleplaying. I've read a majority of the posts here and came to the conclusion that a lot of roleplayers don't understand that the entire point of roleplay is to interact. I have some strict definitions of roleplaying I use when I teach, but I'll skip the lecture and simply state that one has to interact to roleplay. Elsewise, you're solo writing. Roleplaying has recently become somewhat of a derogatory term so much to the degree that myself and a few other roleplayers I know of higher stature refer to the act of roleplay as 'collaborative writing' because it tosses off the shackles of distaste given to us by sex-fueled kids and those punks on facebook with thousands of fake accounts and far too much free time. The second point I want to make is that maturity is a pointless measure as it can only refer to one of two things: physiological and psychological development. Regardless of what model you use, psychological development can happen in stages and be skipped, but any educated individual knows that a majority of what we call common sense or mature actions are actually those that are in line with societal and personal beliefs. Anyone who judges another are physiological development goes into a debate so deep it would requite a novel for me to retort to.

Those two facts are important. All roleplay centers around interaction, but what some people neglect is that there is so much personal preference and influence from individual roleplaying styles that it is sheer ignorance to believe one way is a way it should be. I personally change my outlook at times mid-roleplay just to spice it up, but sometimes you must focus on the plot and disregard finite details about the characters. At other times, one must stretch the setting and plot and even create formerly non-existent events to make a character fit in. There are points in a healthy roleplay when that can happen and when it can't, and it's normally up to a good GM or at least an observant roleplayer to decide those times. The future cannot be planned out, but it can be prepared for. That said, I've read through plenty of opinions, valid points and well-structured statements in this thread that tell me that some people have their opinions and respectfully allow them to clash or mingle with others while some people are just fucking assholes that believe the world is black and white. I do sound hypocritical saying that after I boldly went so far as to claim that anyone whom thinks a canon character cannot be roleplayed effectively is an idiot, but let me addend that:

At times, canon is clear. The actions of a character are determined in short increments and are always evolving. The fact is, there is often not enough information presented in real canon to make a justifiable decision as to what level of psychological development would proceed. Examples of this are Avatar: The Last Airbender. We don't know how Aang grew up or how his personality shifted or changed when he united the world and made Republic City, and no roleplayer has enough source material to truly make an Aang that is justified. Batman, however, is a different story. So is Green Lantern, Superman, Wolvernie, Charles Xavier, so on and so forth. Canon characters are not cut and dry and the fact you face is that sometimes comic writers use the same techniques of on-the-spot creation that we do, simply far better. Some characters do not exist to be fleshed out or roleplayed and using them in a fan fiction or roleplaying deeply as them intrinsically defeats that initial purpose. The best example for this are the dozens of spin off Spiderman comics that show Peter Parker, whom was always interpreted as the 'boy overcoming struggle and adversity' maturing into an adult and how he would act, how his parents, Mary Jane, Uncle Ben and even his Aunt still affect his persona as a man, yet do so differently. Spoiler, Peter Parker dies them is seemingly coming right the fuck back! Mainstream comics don't show that level of maturity, but these brilliant writers still try. The fact there is that even if you act against the nature of a character, you can still do them justice, but that does NOT mean you are roleplaying them. You aren't roleplaying Wolverine or Spiderman or anyone else; you're roleplaying that character AS PERCEIVED BY YOU and it simply won't be the same. That doesn't dilute quality, but that doesn't mean you're always going to do them justice or abide by canon either. This is a conflict every comic writer has to get over and a conflict every writer should just understand is neither good nor bad, like some of the members of this conversation seem to insist. It's not about maturity or development, it is personal preference yet again.

So, what have I seen through all these opinions and arguments? A whole lot of ignorance and intolerance to poor writing, but that's fine. Every writer takes time to develop and if you don't feel someone is on your level, move on or help them. This entire post was about bitching, so let me take a turn? You know what pisses me off? People who think their ability to structure out arguments make them better. I've been bested by people with one-liners and simple replies because they just plain knew what they were talking about. I'll admit it. You don't need grammar or witty comebacks to be impressive or knowledgeable and I think it's stupid as fuck that someone tried. That same someone even tried to claim that people were ignoring the 'content' of his arguments and if I were so volatile to point them out, I'd tell them that I read every fucking word and I'm here to tell him half the shit he says is nothing but a pointless ego trip he thought he'd get away with and won't. A majority of it was just fluff to fill in a few insults and string along a concept as vague as the replies made to him. I've seen it a million times from people who bring up "veterans of roleplay" or "I've been roleplaying x amount of years"; so fucking what. You're still a pretentious dick and no amount of flowery language or literary technique is going to fix that shit. Fuck off.

Sincerely,
The Gentlemen Beast

[Imperfectionist]

I want to bitch about the fact that Prince doesn't post in every thread ever.

I mean, damn. That was fantastic. When I saw that the guy had basically talked back to Lillian, of all people, I was prepared for someone to come in and do something like this... But that ^ was not what I was expecting.

:) All I can say is Bravo, and thank you for an insightful read, Prince.

[Rare]

Damn, that's good... I don't have any words to say..

[Cpt Toellner]

Dervish said
Hey random passerby, read this before venturing further:Don't acknowledge our favorite crusty participant in this thread exists. No amount of responding to him is going to make him change his paper-thin opinions that leave absolutely no room for discussion, so please just carry on like he isn't a thing and use this thread for its intended purpose. You all have better ways to spend your time than responding to someone like that, including the arguably more productive "talking to a pet rock". So don't indulge. Carry on.

Get your filthy logic out of here!

[Brovo]

I heard there was someone challenging my throne to egotism, and I had to come see it for mys--

OutlawTorn said I'm beginning to feel like this community may need me.

... Shit. Well, lets start dissecting the frog. NOTE: Please don't take this as personally offensive, OutlawTorn, I'm simply going to counter your points, not demonize you as a person, or anything else.

Still.

OutlawTorn said I'm actively on 2 other forums.

That's nice. I'm not sure what this is supposed to qualify for.

OutlawTorn said No Pachamac. I'm beginning to feel like this community may need me.

No. This community needs no particular individual member save perhaps the moderators and administrators to keep the site running in a smooth-ish capacity. You, and me, we're just here to kick back and role play, or post in off-topic, spam, roleplay discussion, articles, contests when MDK reincarnates that... So on and so forth.

OutlawTorn said Like maybe that's why he was so adamant about my coming of all places.

Or maybe this is just a really chill place with lots of people.

OutlawTorn said Maybe this is a good thing, your feeling put down by my presence aside, of course.

OutlawTorn said I apologize for being fresh out of fucks to give, but it's been a rough month.

I apologize that your post seems to contradict this statement.

OutlawTorn said Wow!!! I've read your stuff, Pachamac... Slow it down...My quarrel is with those who wrestle with entry level, basic problems, saying stuff like "no one can write a canon character but the creator.">.< I mean that's so stupid it hurts my brain! If you truly believe that, you have no business writing with other people. It's called responsibility.Truly minuscule problems being treated like catastrophes.

Except that's how that person feels and you can't tell them that they're right or wrong? That is purely a personal preference. The only "stupidity" that could hurt the brain is if said person invaded your thread where you use canon characters and tried to tell you otherwise. Then, yeah, stupid, but your thread, you can deal with them appropriately. Otherwise, there's no such thing as a universal set of rules for the site beyond, you know, the site rules, which are pretty simple. Be Fonz cool, and don't post adult content like pornography. As well, obey the rules for each section, which are pretty damned loose, really.

And that's it!

OutlawTorn said Let me say it again, and then you can continue projecting your denial unto me:

Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod~

OutlawTorn said You're my hero, HollywoodMole...It must be so hard... and yet you're still here, givin' it your best...*choked up*

OutlawTorn said your feeling put down by my presence aside, of course.

... Uhh... Captain, in just one page, we have detected an anomaly! It appears to be... Hypocrisy! Damn!

Suggestion: If you can't see how your statements are mocking, belittling, and putting other people down... You sincerely need to go revisit basic English. No, I'm not talking about English literature, I'm talking as in... English as a second language.

OutlawTorn said Because what bothers me is weakness and stupidity.In terms you'll grasp: YOU bother me.

Oh, finally! Some actual juicy content to dismember brutally!

OutlawTorn said I think if I'm bothering you, it's because what I'm saying challenges your comfy little bubble of denial and indecisiveness.

Fonz. Cool. What about this escapes you, Neo?

OutlawTorn said Several of you actually said no one can play canon characters but the creators. That's probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard any roleplayer say in 8 years.

[citation needed]

Also, wow, it's that's the dumbest thing you've heard, I'm sorry to say that you've obviously not gotten very far.

OutlawTorn said This makes me wonder how you even hold your own using your own characters. How inconsistent, basic, and awful they must be, if you can't play a character with tons of source material and background, showing you who that character is.

What? I don't use canon characters. I build my own universes, and play in them. I'd like to imagine my characters, many of which are now outright years old in real life, function just fine without the need for Naruto or Aragorn or someone else to hold their hand.

OutlawTorn said If you put aside the fact that you hate me and my forward approach, you'll find that in theory, a canon character is easier to play, because it's laid out neatly for you.

That's not a forward approach. That's something that's been done for centuries... Remakes, you ever heard of them? People have rewritten each other's stories for eons. That doesn't mean everyone is comfortable doing it, or feels they can do it justice. Just because you sincerely think you can, doesn't mean they do.

OutlawTorn said You have a clear and defined blueprint to guide you every step of the way.So I don't care what you think of me.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't keep responding.

Common Sense: 1.
OutlawTorn: 0.

Also, you said this before. So you know. When you're ready to actually be remotely consistent, maybe others will find your words credible.

OutlawTorn said Millions of roleplayers around the world will agree with me, because I'm right.

[citation needed]

Also, argumentum ad populum =/= actual evidence. Hell, it's not even that level of fallacy: It's quite literally a theoretical argumentum ad populum.

So, no, sorry.

OutlawTorn said Threads like this wouldn't even exist, if everyone had common sense, some conviction, and a little decisiveness.

Except no. Human beings will always have reasons to complain about each other in everything they do. For instance, earlier in this thread, I complained about someone constantly flaking out on me, and then raging at me when I moved on without them. It was absolutely irrational behaviour but I don't hate them for it and it made for an amusing story and it was good to blow off steam.

OutlawTorn said You'd have no need to write lengthy speeches about the problems you encountered, because you'd effectively manage them along the way.Do you really have nothing better to do with your RP time than bitch about shit that bothers you?

Or this is something they do on the side while waiting for others to post, to explore issues and blow steam and have a good laugh and be normal human beings.

OutlawTorn said I find it difficult to hold a conversation with someone who disregards everything I say to make me look like I'm wrong using vague points which are irrelevant to the core subject material.

He says as he makes no effort to try and counter argument or even prove this statement.

OutlawTorn said Just go ahead and say I make you uncomfortable because I'm speaking directly to you in this condescending manner. it's not the attitude, but my being right about YOU that bothers you.

Man, so much need to be right. It's almost like you don't even care about the answer, but more crave the feeling of being correct, and that's why you constantly talk down to people, and display flagrantly disrespectful attitudes.

OutlawTorn said But don't stoop to petty lows, trying to make me look like the idiot. Anyone here with an IQ over 50 knows it too. So I might not be so liberal about speaking on other's behalf.

---

That being said, I think we've all learned a valuable lesson today.

None of us are Neo and we should probably all be humble and respectful to each other. Because at the end of the day, this is a forum, where everyone congregates... To play pretend. With other people. When you offer advice, realize that it's just that: Advice. It's what you think you know. And someone else having a different opinion about how to properly go to imaginationland with your friends or with strangers is definitely not worth getting worked up over. It's maybe worth pitying and laughing at like a hyena.

Because seriously, lets just focus on having fun. That's the whole point.

[Sole]

Brovo for president 2014-infinity

[Jig]

Sole said
Brovo for president 2014-infinity

Seconded. Nomination for Dervish for VP.

[Noxious]

Imperfectionist said
That was fantastic.... :) All I can say is, Brovo, thank you for an insightful read.

ftfy

[genghismike]

Noxious said
I hate that more people do not smoke marijuana. Get on my level.

O.o Random UA's, Noxxie.

I hate that Drug tests exist.

[vancexentan]

Alright I'm just going to make it short and sweet and I'd like to say before hand I will be cursing in this:

my thoughts

I fucking hate when people sign up for roleplays and then don't join. Yes it's one thing to expect something initially then get put off but when the GM expects the bare minimum to be able to do his roleplay and you say yes then you at least should TRY or get someone to replace you if possible. I've had entire roleplays halted just because one person couldn't stay on or was a complete fucking loser and couldn't have the simple kindness to PM or put in a four second message saying: "Hey guys I'm leaving the roleplay sorry but I can't stay on because "..."

Another thing that pisses me off is when people sign up for a roleplay....and then proceed to enter with, in my opinion, sub-par character sheets in terms of amount of work put into it. I make everyone at least have one paragraph and a half for their personality, and two paragraphs for history if possible. I also state this in the top of my roleplays saying this is the standard casual to high casual type roleplay and when you look at my CS you can see that, while there are errors in it grammatically, I do put the time and effort into making my guy. Another thing is insulting the GM's abilities when they have never before played with the person. How can you tell if a roleplay is going to be good just because the GM doesn't like your idea for the roleplay or doesn't feel comfortable with it? I have remade a CS six times before to make it fit a roleplay making the character a completely different person and if you can't tell me that you can't just change one thing about him or her just because then you clearly show that your either dead set on playing that one person or you just are too lazy to think outside the box. That being said I am going to admit most of my characters are relatively the same build with various changes. If I need to change something I will or else decline the spot I offered in the roleplay and bid the GM a honest fair well and good luck.

One more thing is people who just give up on a roleplay just because it starts out slow. If you rush into a roleplay with a fully developed skill set and characters at their max abilities what then? How does that allow improvement and trial for that character later? They become boring and static in my opinion. A roleplay is like a book the character needs to develop into his or her own as it goes along the way. If you're just going to be the stone cold badass loner then guess what chances are you won't have much freaking stuff to do in the god damn roleplay. Build your character to get more action into it. My loner guys? Their usually casual and empathetic. They simply just don't really care to have friends but aren't opposed to it either they just want to go with things at their own pace they don't go Batman and say "This is why I work alone." sort of mantra. It's one thing if a roleplay allows for that sort of character it's another to go into a roleplay and expect the others to make situations that fit your character.

I don't know if I sound hypocritical or not in this but that's my feelings on the matter.