Zoe Quinn.

[So Boerd]

This really can't be that interesting.

[Darog the Badger God]

So Boerd said
This really be that interesting.

Bullshit stinks where bullshit drops :p.

[So Boerd]

Judging from my two minutes of research, which was all I could spare on it, I have reached several conclusions, of which all but the last are probably wrong/misguided.

1. The allegation that supporters just want to sleep with her is untrue (hopefully). I have mistaken better looking women for men in my peripheral vision. She's less "Marilyn Monroe" and more "Marilyn Manson".
2. Feminists rallying to her is stupid.
3. This is extraordinarily trivial. It is almost noteworthy how trivial this is, to be getting so much attention.

[Dipper]

So Boerd said
Judging from my two minutes of research, which was all I could spare on it, I have reached several conclusions, of which all but the last are probably wrong/misguided.1. The allegation that supporters just want to sleep with her is untrue (hopefully). I have mistaken better looking women for men in my peripheral vision. She's less "Marilyn Monroe" and more "Marilyn Manson".2. Feminists rallying to her is stupid.3. This is extraordinarily trivial. It is almost noteworthy how trivial this is, to be getting so much attention.

Because corruption I game journalism and rapid censorship of the truth is trivial, right? Why don't you watch thwnvideos on the first page, it explains why it isn't trivial.

[Gwazi Magnum]

It's not Zoe's sexual activities/tendencies that are an issue. If she wants to fuck 5 guys that's her choice. If she want's to sleep with Phil Fish that's her death wish.

What's an issue is how those sexual exchanges were used to influence media to be dishonest. Specifically a form of media that is still trying prove itself competent and capable in most people's eyes compared to say Television, Movies and Literature.

Even then though it was a rather tame issue, people called it out for the bullshit it was. If this criticism was received well and the Journalists apologized this would of blown over by now. The reason it instead exploded and is still around is because instead of that, Zoe and her friends resorting to declaring sexism & harassment from the gaming community, and taking down Charities.

[Hellis]

"-A fair amount of ranting on feminism-"

Subverting my opinion to a rant and disregarding everything I wrote, without bringing up a single point of the entire argument? Atleast try to form a structured, logical approach and meet the criticism leveled against you. Instead you wave it off with cynisism and snide comments. Making you look none the better for it. Hell, you were making no distinction before this, you were speaking of feminism as one entity. Don't try to slate it over with "I only meant a part of it." That is not how it works. You were painting up all of Femmenism to be one thing you were apperently presenting. You by doing that, generalize. Words are important, meanings are conveyed differently from your mind.

That said, Anita is like everyone else, allowed her opinion on the matter. It is regretfull that she takes the side of Quinn, who has proven herself to be everything but a model human being in the way she treated the entire situation. I think a important part in this is to remember that the lass is human, and Is likely unable to comprehend just how fucked up things are around her due to her selfish, seemingly entirely self serving ways. I personally dislike the womans (Anitas) sensationalist vibe alot of the time, but if we want our lovely media to ever be taken seriusly we need people like her. Criticism, as stinging as it can be, is vital for any media. It is part of a artform and mediums growth. Anita, for all her faults, live a life full of death threats becouse gamers are a easily offended bunch. Imagine that, you critize something for a easily recognized pattern and WHAM, you are being called every terrible thing in the book and wished death upon. This is a far bigger problem then any third wave feminist (Not that I can with a straight face ever call Anita for one.) can ever provide. They (The Feminists) exist becouse people like those anonymous, degrading people exist.

And, despite her many, many flaws in her presenstation, Anita has improved alot. She still needs to open up for sensible debate however.

Hell I found myself agreeing to some of her points as of late.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Actually even though in the quote section I called it a rant I did respond to the majority of your points.

Hellis said Ok, Magnum, I have a few issues with how you continuesly try to present this as if Feminism is the problem here. Stop. Just stop. This has nothing to do with the political, female rights driven adaptation of ideologies that has achieved a shit ton of good. Statements like this; "Feminist Double Standards" "Feminism has been quick to move to Zoe Quinns defense, it's been adopted by them as a feminist issue."Are clearly nothing but sweeping generalization for the sake of a target to aim at. Feminism as a whole has not taken her stand. I see no sources of reputable, established feminsm organization raging in her defence, Making the second statement false and really, missleading as all hell. You are waving the "Femism is being oppresive" flag around in every post and the attack at apparent double standards seems to thrown in there to air your griviences with this strange enemy of yours. This isn't about feminism.

All of this is essentially working on the assumption that I was attacking feminism as a whole, which once I made it clear that wasn't what I was doing there was no need to go forward. Cause the assumption these arguments were made under were then proven false.

I would ask for clarification by what you meant by "Hell, you were making no distinction before this" it seems unstated cause that was the only post I made criticizing feminism in this topic.
Everything else was in other debate's where, if you are half what active in OT you should be well aware that my issues with feminism is third wave feminism, not all feminism.

That was something repeated often enough among this community I felt the clarification no longer needed repeating. But apparent you either forgot, or were never aware of my stance so I went back and clarified. So no, it's not a attempt to slate a thing over. It's having made a wrong assumption that you possessed a piece of knowledge in regards to my stance on the issue.

Hellis said A person like her may use the "Misogony" card but I have yet to see it taken up by any serius sources. And, if we are gonna go into the subject further; I work closely with people in the gaming industry, both indy and bigger names. I have many outspoken, feminist friends who happen to be gamers, or in the gaming industry. Quite a few of them here in sweden, you'd be surprised. None of them are even remotely taking Zoeys side. They think she is dragging what they stand for in the mud. And let's get down to the problem at hand.

1. This is personal friendships, doesn't exactly hold much weight in debate.
2. Since I had already clarified above I only meant Third Wave feminists and you're described friends do not fit the Third Wave feminist criteria, simple logic should dictate I was not referring to people such as your friends. So saying "My feminist friends aren't like that!" was irrelevant, because they were not the kinds of feminists being criticized.

Hellis said To qoute Bravo, whom I agree with on the subject;"Games Journalism is a ship full of rats."Indeed it is, and you have no idea the amount of cheese the industry throw them to keep them from eating up the puppy that is overprices crap games. I was part of a small time editorial thing that did game reviews. Our chief editor, who ran the entire thing got us working with a more established site. You know what happens to us in the matter of days? Let me tell you; Despite us being small, shit all important nerds we still are deemed worthy of wasting money on. Our review copies were sent along with giftbackets, invitations and all sorts of neat stuff. They are fairly upfront with their bribing, let me tell you. Here, have a game, and all this shit to. But should we write to many bad reviews for a companys games, what happen? No more giftbaskets, buy the games ourselves! Not to mention us a brand is less desirable.Gaming journalism is click bait. Its sensationalism at it's 'finest'. Of course, some sites like TheDailyBeast and other will take the side of Zoey whatever her name is; Why? Becouse it racks up views, it is currently internet fucking famous. Most importantly, it's grabbing attention of everyone involved. That there is called ad revenue. It's what they live on. Wanna speak about the corruption of the game journalism industy, look at ONGAMERS, who were banned from reddit for upvoting their own stuff to the frontpage. A site who are essentialy, sensationalism garbage all around and who play obvius favourites in E-Sports. For a fledgling industry, they have adopted the failings of the old news industry giants very quickly.

And this was all one big Logical Fallacy known as the fallacy of relative prviation. Yes this kind of bribery is common in journalism, that doesn't mean Zoe Quinn is suddenly granted protection.

So, just because I didn't format your quote's into different sections did not mean I had not addressed/replied to your arguments?
Please actually pay attention to what I said next time, not how many quote boxes with your name in it that popped up.

Hellis said -Anita-

The issue with Anita is that she has proven herself countless times to be dishonest, lying and unable to do her research.

For some examples, recorded footage of her admitting she actually is not a gamer and doesn't like video games despite the fact that both during and after her kickstarter she has claimed to have been a gamer growing up.

The next few examples I point to individual clips like that, there all parts of larger videos. Here's one by Thunderf00t but it might have been some of this others that address a couple of these points.

1. Lying about the intention/motivation of Video games.
Such as her claim Hitman gave Gamers a derived pleasure of killing helpless women and desecrating their corpse. When it truth the game actually penalizes you for killing innocents.

2. Claiming that WatchDog's encourages the Sexual exposure/revealing of women
And when doing this she shows clips from the very mission you are meant to be freeing girls from Sex slavery. I'm pretty sure saving women from such a thing means you value their freedom and independence, not that women are objects to be exploited.

3. Many cases of taking very specific clips of gameplay footage from Lets Players (without permission) and showed them in a set up to imply/set up sexism.

4. The very fact she needed over 100k, for videos she rarely releases. And as even the most basic fact checking of the games she covers exposes a lot of cut corners, shitty research and/or outright lying about the games in question.

Essentially what I'm getting at is Anita is completely dishonest, she has her own agenda and has proven herself time and time again that she can't be trusted.
If a sincere feminist, humanist, Gender egalitarian etc. came out saying there was sexism in games and brought arguments supporting it... That'd be another thing, but they need to back it up with legitimate reasons and proof.
Hell, one show Extra Credit's does this constantly, highlighting examples of say racism, sexism, homophobia etc. In games. But have they ever gotten slack for it? No.

The reason is Gamers are not a easily offended bunch like you claim they are. It's just that if someone comes in and claims something we enjoy is sexist/wrong, and doesn't actually have arguments to back it up (and worse yet, caught lying in order to make games seem sexist) we're going to react badly. Cause she is blatantly attacking and painting a bad image of our medium simply to further her own agenda. But when say Extra Credits does it? Actually explaining it, having facts and good reasoning to back it up? We listen, we agree with them and then actually try pushing for changes in the gaming community because of it.

[So Boerd]

Because corruption I game journalism and rapid censorship of the truth is trivial, right

If not by the government/major political parties and not in defiance of any laws, then yes

[Hellis]

Are you seriusly, seriusly defending deaththreats Magnum. Or are you just blatantly shoving that aside?

"And this was all one big Logical Fallacy known as the fallacy of relative prviation. Yes this kind of bribery is common in journalism, that doesn't mean Zoe Quinn is suddenly granted protection."

At what point did I say this? I never did. That is called missdirection. I was just as adamant against Zoey as everyone else in this thread so far. I brought up the point of actual femmenists being upset with her even. I merely highlighted a even bigger problem, relevant to the issue.

[Gwazi Magnum]

The death threats Anita receives doesn't make her points any more valid. It simply means someone was pissed enough to send her a death threat.

And having looked at the death threat post myself, it looks a lot like typical Internet threats that people throw at each other all the time. And Anita either didn't understand that's simply how the Internet talks, or she's taking advantage of it go gain attention and sympathy. My money's on the latter, cause she's pissed off enough people there's no way this is the first death threat she got.

People like Thunderf00t and TheAmazingAtheists get such threats daily, and in terms of general popularity they tend to be smaller names in comparison and don't ruthlessly lie about something that millions of people care about. It's just seems impossible for this to be the first time Anita got one of these, so the fact she didn't panic and run to a friends house until now seems to indicate it's an act. Especially considering this is almost immediately after Phil Fish and Zoe Quinn attempted to stage a hack against them.

Am I defending the death threats? No.
But I acknowledge they are common place in Internet culture, and anyone who wants to be Internet famous needs to get used to that.

As for the articles/logical fallacy bit.

Miss-interpretation on my part then, sorry about that.
I got the impression you were saying that attention should be shifted off of Quinn onto the others.

Though honestly Zoe Quinn has evolved past being just a Journalism corruption issue. It itself has turned into an other feminism/war on women battle. And also turned into a battle that has resulted in staged hackings, and the shutting down of charities. I can't think of any other gaming journalist situation that has escalated into such a thing before.

[Hellis]

Fair points. I concede on the issue as you did point out that it was (regrettebly) how people on the internet work. They think nothing of it becouse they are safe behind a screen. Its still degenerative, ILLEGAL activity however.

It escalated into it becouse the media is evolving into a corruption of the whole female struggle. Its a problem, a massive one, that people like Quinn try to clear themselves of guilt by claiming mysogony. Granted, 4chan holds some of the worst internet has to offer, and I have no doubt it houses some pretty terrible, female hating idiots. But the fact is that people like Zoey are great at one thing; Manipulation. She isn't dumb, she proven that. She is very good at swaying people, trough any means possible from the looks of it. But she would not have been able to get this ground swell of support had it not been for sensationalism of journalism. The whole hacking affair is just another part of internet culture. Hacktevism is a thing, it was only a matter of time before it became a beligerent source of attack.

[Brovo]

Hellis said I think a important part in this is to remember that the lass is human, and Is likely unable to comprehend just how fucked up things are around her due to her selfish, seemingly entirely self serving ways.

Regardless of her comprehension, it does not exempt her from criticism. Criticism that is fully valid in the face of shutting down charities out of personal greed and sending her verbal assault squad in the journalist media to attack anyone who points out just how wrong she is.

A big part of this isn't specifically Zoe Quinn: It's the fact that she's so easily twisted the games journalist media to her side because she has a vagina.

Hellis said I personally dislike the womans (Anitas) sensationalist vibe alot of the time, but if we want our lovely media to ever be taken seriusly we need people like her.

No, we don't need conmen. We need more people like Jimquisition and Extra Credits: People who point out real problems without having to manufacture them and explaining potential solutions to those problems instead of spending their entire 20+ minute long video telling the audience how sexist and evil they are if they have a penis.

Hellis said Criticism, as stinging as it can be, is vital for any media. It is part of a artform and mediums growth.

You missed a word there. Constructive criticism is vital for any media. Random criticism that has no basis in logic or reason has no place but to distract us from real issues. A lack of female protagonists is a real issue that needs resolving. The fact that you can kill women--like you can kill anyone else--in Hitman, is not a real issue. The issue is Anita argues from two points: That all women are victims of misogyny, and that all men are misogynists if they don't agree with her. If you don't believe me, just watch her Feminist Frequency videos. She rattles on about how pretty well every game in existence is a male power fantasy, despite many games letting you play as a female protagonist, or are games that aren't of the violence-filled adrenaline pumping shooty variety.

Hellis said Anita, for all her faults, live a life full of death threats becouse gamers are a easily offended bunch.

Everyone is an easily offended bunch. Not just gamers. Also, she lives a life full of death threats because she's essentially telling the entire gaming demographic, male or female, that their hobby makes them sexist misogynist bigots who will kill and murder and rape in real life because they ran over a woman in Grand Theft Auto.

Yes, she does actually make the claim that video games will make you into a sexist rapist. She makes the exact same claim that Jack Thompson did, only instead of murder, it's rape.

Hellis said Imagine that, you critize something for a easily recognized pattern and WHAM, you are being called every terrible thing in the book and wished death upon.

... Like every other person in history ever, regardless of their gender? Fuck man, this shit's been going on all the way back to Galileo. This is absolutely not new. You attack something that many millions like, and out of those many millions, some odd one percent of them can and will send you death threats, either to troll you or to vent their aggression towards you. Period. To proclaim that the majority of the gaming community actually sends her death threats is ludicrous on the face of it and you know it. It's extremists and fifteen year olds doing this, not the general gaming community who just wants to be left alone to Mario jump into the next world.

Hellis said This is a far bigger problem then any third wave feminist (Not that I can with a straight face ever call Anita for one.) can ever provide.

Third wave feminism has...
--Shut down charities.
--Further poisoned and corrupted the entirety of Gaming Journalism.
--Attempted to corrupt the new atheism movement and partially succeed (Atheism+)
--Infiltrated and poisoned the general media.
--DDOS websites. (Rarely. Usually the Tumblrites do this.)
--Sent death threats to perceived threats. (ex: Thunderf00t.)

Angry gamers have... Um...
--...Stopped buying games?
--Sent death threats they've never acted on.

Yeah. Those evil gamers and their evil gaming. How dare they... Have an opinion. That doesn't mesh with what feminists think.

Hellis said They (The Feminists) exist becouse people like those anonymous, degrading people exist.

Feminists exist to improve the lives of women. Real feminists, like Malala Yousafzai, who challenge real institutionalized sexism, immediately have my respect and backing. Malala was shot in the head for wanting to have an education. This hasn't stopped her from recovering in a hospital and continuing to push forward through educating herself and those around her. She uplifts people. That is real, good work. Uplifting, creating, constructing, improving. All Anita has done is whine about how gaming is sexist. She has in no way attempted to improve gaming. None of her criticism is constructive, she offers no useful advice or solutions that could be reasonable acted upon.

All Anita has done is spread at best misinformation and lies at worst. She's one of the worst examples of feminism on the planet... Period. Zoe Quinn is the same. I'll bet a big reason the Zoe Quinn situation is exploding is precisely because people are angry that she shut down a charity that was supposed to create a game featuring a female protagonist, created by women... Because feminism. Even attempts to create more female protagonists get shut down because lolfeminism. Anita supporting Zoe Quinn in this is no surprise: Anita hasn't bothered to try and inspire the creation of more female protagonists either.

Neither of these women in any way, shape, or form, do fuck all in improving the state of gaming. That's why people hate them. It's not because they're women and have an opinion. There are plenty of women on the Internet who have an opinion and nobody (save that nasty incurable 1% I mentioned earlier) harasses them. The worst they might get is "lol ur hawt", which is a compliment if nothing else.

Hellis said And, despite her many, many flaws in her presenstation, Anita has improved alot. She still needs to open up for sensible debate however. Hell I found myself agreeing to some of her points as of late.

No. She really hasn't. The only construable improvement one could note is that she's had more time to gather more misinformation. Even then, her videos only release on a schedule of... Oh... One every eight months? She refuses to respond to criticism, often labeling it sexist, and spits in the face of actual progress.

Anita is your enemy towards more inclusiveness for women. Not your friend. Same goes for Zoe Quinn.

[Gwazi Magnum]

And as it turns out Anita was faking it.
This just goes to support my earlier point on how dishonest she is.

As for Zoe, it is true that without this much attention she would not have gotten as much support as he has. But her support is in reaction to all the criticism she's getting, so I honestly think it balances out with all the people who are calling her out on her bullshit. And 4chan does tend to house a lot of the shittiest attitude's the Internet has to offer, this is true. But the evidence still points towards her and Phil Fish having faked the hacks, 4chan not being part of it at all.

And even if they were, that's not the entirety of 4chan. Shutting down the Charity that 4chan supported would have still been uncalled for.

[Dipper]

Well, this might be bullshit, but apparently, a game journalist who wished to remain anonymous contacted /v/'s Facebook page Corruption in Video Game Journalism told them that Operation Disrespectful Nod (a letter writing campaign where people send all the collected information about the censorship and such to the advertisers of gaming news sites) is working, and places like Kotaku, The Escapist, and other such 'Gaming Journalist' websites are currently having their advertisers breathing down their neck about this, causing the recent "ALL GAMERS ARE SEXIST, GAMERS ARE DEAD, WHY GAMERS AREN'T IMPORTANT ANYMORE, and GAMERS ARE UNNECESSARY" type articles to be written in a bizzare attempt to somehow make gamers no longer be the ones who play video games (wut).

The funny thing is, gamers have been seen as freaks/outcasts since the 90s, and now that gaming is 100℅ mainstream, the same people who acted like gamers were the second coming of the nerdy, neckbearded D&D nerds are now trying to take over the gaming culture while forcing gamers back into the shadows.

Just gonna... Leave this Green text I saw on /v/ here about how the additude towards gamers have been since the 90s.

90s
>"GAMERS ARE A BUNCH OF NECKBEARD LOSERS WITH NO FRIENDS, THAT'S WHY THEY SPEND THEIR TIME PLAYING VIDEO GAMES ALL DAY."
early mid 2000s 
>"GAMERS ARE VIOLENT PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING BRAINWASHED TO DO VIOLENT THINGS BECAUSE OF VIOLENCE IN VIDEO GAMES. A COUPLE PEOPLE WHO HAPPENED TO PLAY VIDEO GAMES DID SOME VIOLENT THINGS THESE GAMES MUST BE STOPPED."
late 2000s, early 2010s
>"FUCKING GAMERS ARE A BUNCH OF ENTITLED BRATS. WHAT'S THAT? YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY A DEVELOPER MISREPRESENTED/TREATED SOMETHING YOU SPENT MONEY ON AND SUPPORTED AND INVESTED TIME IN? WELL, TOUGH SHIT ENTITLED BABIES YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND *~ART~*"
early 2010s - present day
>"GAMERS ARE A BUNCH OF SEXIST BIGGOTED PIGS. WHAT'S THAT? YOU DISAGREE WITH SOMETHING A WOMAN SAID ABOUT YOUR FAVORITE VIDEO GAME? WOW STOP BEING SO MISOGYNISTIC YOU MANBABY. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE UPSET WITH THE MEDIA? NO THAT CAN'T BE IT, YOU ARE JUST A HATEFUL SPITEFUL VIRGIN."

[Gwazi Magnum]

Gaming even if it's becoming more accepted, is still the main hobby that keeps people from going outside. It's still the hobby where on average there are less IRL social interactions. Both of which btw are 100% fine, I do not mean to imply for a second that being a gamer is somehow wrong or unhealthy and needs to change. Hell a better way to word it may simply be "Gamer's are the most likely to be Introverts".

What do Extroverts constantly do in reaction to Introverts? Not connect or relate as well, people who feel a massive need to get outside, interact with human beings etc. Setting up Introvert's as something a bit alien, and once seen as something outside/different it becomes easier for Introverts to be looked down upon. This is easily seen in examples such as:

-In School's it's always the Extroverted Popular kids who more people like. That School Staff and Majority of Teachers treat favorably and look the other way for most often.

-Extrovert's always being deemed as the "Developmentally Healthy" individual/mindset, and the Introvert being painted as "Developmentally flawed or lacking".

And once society has degraded them in such a way, it becomes easy to make them the scapegoat. Make them the sub-group to be hated upon, controlling that hatred to fuel another,selfish agenda

It's this, in Combination with "New Things scare society" is what I believe has allowed the 'Gamers are Violent/Entitled/Sexist' claims to stay alive for so long. Hell most of the claims about violence, entitlement or being sexist can be more easily (and accurately) made in regards to something such as sports. But it never happens, cause that isn't a group of people that society has decided it can look down on, but rather something they openly accept and identify with.

[Dipper]

Magic Magnum said
Gaming even if it's becoming more accepted, is still the main hobby that keeps people from going outside. It's still the hobby where on average there are less IRL social interactions. Both of which btw are 100% fine, I do not mean to imply for a second that being a gamer is somehow wrong or unhealthy and needs to chance. Hell a better way to word it may simply be "Gamer's are the most likely to be Introverts".What do Extroverts constantly do in reaction to Introverts? Not connect or relate as well, people who feel a massive need to get outside, interact with human beings etc. Setting up Introvert's as something a bit alien, and once seen as something outside/different it becomes easier for Introverts to be looked down upon. This is easily seen in examples such as:-In School's it's always the Extroverted Popular kids who more people like. That School Staff and Majority of Teachers treat favorably and look the other way for most often.-Extrovert's always being deemed as the "Developmentally Healthy" individual/mindset, and the Introvert being painted as "Developmentally flawed or lacking".And once you society as degraded them in such a way, it becomes easily to make them the scapegoat. Make them the sub-group to be hated upon, controlling that hatred to fuel another,selfish agendaIt's this, in Combination with "New Things scare society" is what I believe has allowed the 'Gamers are Violent/Entitled/Sexist' claims to stay alive for so long. Hell most of the claims about violence, entitlement or being sexist can be more easily (and accurately) made in regards to something such as sports. But it never happens, cause that isn't a group of people that society has decided it can look down on, but rather something they openly accept and identify with.

I've got to get going, my firstday at my new job starts in 1 hour. (9:30 Pm to 6:00 AM), so I don't have time to address your post as I'd like to. When I get back from work, I'll respond - But I want to say I agree with you 100 ℅ and simply want to add to several points you made.

[MyCatGinger]

So, in fifteen minutes I learnt all about the Zoe Quinn case. Well...in the first page and a half, anyway. Which then escalated to an interesting discussion about feminism, what it is, what it isn't, who it targets, which then went into gamers as the years go by.
Thank you for your opinions and valuable information brought to me.
...and I'd just like to add I really like D&D, and I don't think most people who play it...must be...>> Horrid. But that's the same for everything. Generalisations are always incorrect. You can never really truly speak for an entire party with anything, so I understand.
As for gamers being introverts, haha, perhaps with actual physical interaction but...gamers who play online and stuff probably make more interactions with real people than a person would do with people in real life, in just one day!
That is all. Good luck with your job.
D&D is cool.
Feminism extremists are not very cool.
Zoe Quinn craze seems to have died down. I now understand it however. No clue who this Anita is. My corner of the world is a very sheltered place.
And we do need more female protagonists, for no other reason in my opinion than "It'd be fucking awesome, yeeeeeeah!" Just look at the Tomb Raider series. Gorgeous.
That is all. Fare thee well, the arbitrary fourth horseman rides off into the sunset, never to show their face again to said thread after dropping their two cents into an empty wishing-well!

[Gwazi Magnum]

Gamer's increase social interactions online though is heavily aided by technological advancements. We have over time designed better and more efficient systems for online communication. Such kind of system upgrades aren't possible in face to face interactions. But yes, some of us do greatly engage socially online. But it does also largely depend on what your gaming.

For example, Xbox LIVE you'd find a lot of social people (Not necessarily friendly though mind you). People who join a lobby are all instantly connected through voice chat, able to communicate and socialize right off the bat. But something such as say DDO? WoW? Phantasy Star Online? League of Legends? You're normally restricted to text chat, something we need to take focus away from the game itself to take part in. So activity is a lot more small, often being filled by a minority of chatty folks and the rest simply making rage comments or making a LFG post.

You have to really go out of way to do something like join a Teamspeak Server to properly communicate with people, and most people don't. Once you get to the server, oh yea social levels are through the roof. But that's after you've already narrowed it down among all the gamers out there.

It should also be added that Games also have the perk of hiding your real Identity, people don't know who you are. You can be who you want, and it won't follow you over into the real world. So Introverts being more social online isn't even a clear indicator that they are generally really social people. It means there is less barriers, Extroverts would also be even more extroverted in such situations. Though that being said, an Extrovert might have that reversed if they feel they are in a very alien environment. Which since many Extroverts don't get that into video games, would suggest that is probably what happens a lot of the time.

*Has now just talked myself into a point I was not considering*. However, with that logic an argument can be made that Introvert's simply have that alien feeling in the real world, and Extroverts have it in the virtual world. That is an interesting thought, and something I will take into further reflection.

However, if that is indeed the case dividing Introvert's and Extroverts, I would still stand by my overall analysis in the earlier post. I would simply re-word it to be:

"Those are more social in the real world will stigmatize and look down on those who are more social in the virtual world. Thus helping to lead to the scapegoat hatred, and open mockery of gamers. Combined with the whole "New is scary" trend that humans have. And seeing how the vast majority of human history we have had to be outside, real life interacting creatures. The idea of virtual interaction is still a scary and alien concept to many".

[Dipper]

MyCatGinger said
So, in fifteen minutes I learnt all about the Zoe Quinn case. Well...in the first page and a half, anyway. Which then escalated to an interesting discussion about feminism, what it is, what it isn't, who it targets, which then went into gamers as the years go by.Thank you for your opinions and valuable information brought to me....and I'd just like to add I really like D&D, and I don't think most people who play it...must be...>> Horrid. But that's the same for everything. Generalisations are always incorrect. You can never really truly speak for an entire party with anything, so I understand.As for gamers being introverts, haha, perhaps with actual physical interaction but...gamers who play online and stuff probably make more interactions with real people than a person would do with people in real life, in just one day!That is all. Good luck with your job.D&D is cool.Feminism extremists are not very cool.Zoe Quinn craze seems to have died down. I now understand it however. No clue who this Anita is. My corner of the world is a very sheltered place.And we do need more female protagonists, for no other reason in my opinion than "It'd be fucking awesome, yeeeeeeah!" Just look at the Tomb Raider series. Gorgeous.That is all. Fare thee well, the arbitrary fourth horseman rides off into the sunset, never to show their face again to said thread after dropping their two cents into an empty wishing-well!

Again, as with Kaga, the generalization was one of 'this is how 'normies' see us. do you think I'd bash the game that, in a way, acts like a guideline to some types of rpers? ;)

Also, the focus on Zoe has mostly died, but the focus on corruption in the game industry and game journalism has only just begun.

I tell you this day, that the Gaming industry is going to crash again - We may be witnessing the first smouldering flames. It will be glorious.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Dipper said \I tell you this day, that the Gaming industry is going to crash again - We may be witnessing the first smouldering flames. It will be glorious.

Maybe with Triple A studios with some exceptions like Bethesdia.
But the Indie Market is growing and flourishing, they'd probably keep the gaming industry alive and well.