Mahz's Dev Journal

[Shienvien]

What LegendBegins said. It is not directed at whoever made the logo, be it a person or company - I'd assume the URL says "redPANDA" because it it generally respectful to credit the producers, and many outright necessitate doing so (meaning that you can't use the artwork unless you credit, or you'll have law on your back). I have no idea who he/she/they is or are or how much thought or effort they put into it, and I am not weighing either in in my comments. (What I would weigh in would be whether I'm dealing with something free or something paid. Paid work generally has no excuses.)
I've done art and graphical works myself, both free and paid, and I'll honestly say I won't take "looks lazy" or plain "I don't like it" as an insult. I don't take "[Part of solution] looks exploitable, fix it" as an insult as a programmer, either, I go and fix the thing. Actual insults are what I get for my writing rather than my art or codeworks.

[The Grey Warden]

@Shienvien, you should of used more professional words than just straight up calling it 'lazy' next time around. I didn't mean for it to get this point, after all I am just stating my opinion on your judgement.

But, this argument is getting us nowhere as you and I wouldn't change. I am ending it here before it gets annoying to Mazh.

[Shienvien]

Tyah, semantics. Uninspired? *shrugs*

On another note, promoting RPG? Roleplayerguild doesn't come up in the first page when you just type "roleplay" into Google. "roleplay RP" seems to work, though. Say, would it be worth it if RPG was listed here, if someone figured out how to add sites here (I assume you'd have to join): toprpsites.com , and onto other similar lists? Iwaku and plenty of other smaller RP sites are listed.

@Shienvien The guild actually is on that list, just not very high.

[Shienvien]

It is? *checks again* Apparently it is. It just doesn't come up in the search when you type "roleplayerguild" as one word (as it is in the address bar). Oh well.

General idea remains, though: plaster the name wherever we can.

[Frettzo]

I'd say take away or replace the image in the new identifier. That's the glaring issue for me with the new version.

[NuttsnBolts]

Art is subjective.

It's the first thing I will always say but having a taste in a certain art style is like having a taste in a certain style of music. So when someone critiques an artwork they are basing it off their own personal interest.

When critiquing words like 'lazy' can be used as it's a way of expressing how the person feel about the design, and yet I have seen in the past an artist make one change and it's taken something from terrible to amazing. What @Shienvien probably feels is that the design is lacking something, that it may look a little too generic, that the logo may not have a history behind it. Mitsubishi's logo is based off two family crest designs. Lamborghini's bull is based off a zodiac and love for Spanish bull fighting.

That's why he, along with others, are attached to the old design as it has a history about it. A memory of pre-guild that may show that the site will live on with the work and commitment of people like Mahz. I don't know what logo would please everyone as we all have different taste, but I wouldn't start fighting between ourselves over what we feel looks pretty and looks bad. The only person That's going to be affected by people's views on the logo is Panda, so there's no reason to get butt hurt over someone's personal, and valid, opinion.

Edit: all I will say on the matter, so let's move on.

[Ellri]

@The Grey Warden: We'll provide an example for how we deem the difference between insult and criticism, as we did not consider what was written last page about the logo to be insults. Seeing how we're not out to hurt anyone, we'll insult ourselves. We're nasty that way.

@Ellri's work, while not a completely generic, does not feel like it has a unique feel to it. It would be better for the guild if the logo reflected its nature more. <-- Criticism

@Ellri should be shot for such a shoddy piece of trash. Its beyond terrible. It is something the guild should never be associated with. <-- Insult.

See the difference?

Anyways, in any contest, if there is one, we most certainly hope that redPanda enters either with this and/or with something else. For all we know, it could even end up winning, and if it does that, no one can truly complain again in any justified fashion.

[Shienvien]

A contest would first need a sufficient amount of entrants, granted... (I'd also say that not being in the majority doesn't necessarily invalidate your opinion.) But ah well, such a long discussion over my choice of words which was originally just a paraphrase of The Grey Warden's comment on the old logo.

Most art-related things are subjective. A few are not.
- "The particular light orange (peach?) color used in the new logo can be found nowhere else on the site" is purely objective - you can check with your art program of choice and confirm that this is an accurate statement. The text and other such elements are quite a few values off. (Whether the distinct off-tone is an issue or not is another, much more subjective matter. I personally typically tend to be annoyed when one random element decides to be just enough different to be easily noticeably off, but not being different enough to be completely its own thing. I also prefer names in logos being capitalized - this is also a possibly subjective aspect.)
- "The notepad-symbol is very similar to the icons used by several text editing programs and pads" is a mostly objective statement. You can compare similarities in a mostly objective manner. (Rectangle representing paper or some other surface? Check. "Right-handed" pencil pointing at said rectangle? Check.)
- "It is generic and doesn't stand out enough to be memorable." is somewhere between objective and subjective. It's not like you can confirm the latter half without sitting people down and going through memory tests with them.
- "I still like even simply the old logo much better" is purely subjective.
None of the above is an insult.

[HeySeuss]

The only person That's going to be affected by people's views on the logo is Panda, so there's no reason to get butt hurt over someone's personal, and valid, opinion.

@NuttsnBolts

There is a lot I could say here, but I'll keep it succinct. Panda isn't the type that gets butthurt even when there is insult offered. That sort of critique is generally more of a commentary on the person giving it than on the actual merits of the work being critiqued.

[BBeast]

- "The particular light orange (peach?) color used in the new logo can be found nowhere else on the site" is purely objective - you can check with your art program of choice and confirm that this is an accurate statement. The text and other such elements are quite a few values off. (Whether the distinct off-tone is an issue or not is another, much more subjective matter. I personally typically tend to be annoyed when one random element decides to be just enough different to be noticeably off, but not being different enough to be completely its own thing.)

@Shienvien

To most people (as far as I can tell), the colours are close enough to make little discernible difference without actively comparing them. I didn't even notice any discrepancies until you pointed it out. I can understand your own sensitivity to colour, though.

[Shienvien]

To most people (as far as I can tell), the colours are close enough to make little discernible difference without actively comparing them. I didn't even notice any discrepancies until you pointed it out. I can understand your own sensitivity to colour, though.

Color differences tend to be highly dependent on your eyes, environment and screen, yes. (It's probably kind of a known thing by now - from my several comments on slightly unpleasant-to-look-at colors and the pink that is RPG's red if not otherwise - that I have very high hue discrimination and contrast sensitivity, which ... tends to heavily exaggerate such differences.) I distinctly see the logo's color as light orange and the similar range text on rest of RPG as dark yellow... So yeah, they look pretty different to me specifically.
The teal color that is used for announcements is strange, though. I don't feel the need to eliminate it. It is actually quite pretty.

Eh... And I am on the more blunter side as far as the selection of words and expression? I also appreciate people who do tell me things in my face and indeed let me know when I messed up somewhere - I respect that, and how else am I going to judge whether I should alter something? Prove me that I'm in the wrong and I try to change it. And if it's something subjective it'll depend on who is the person to decide. No need for insults, though - I won't attack a person, and I won't think highly of people who do, either.

[The Grey Warden]

I don't care what you all have to say on the subject. I gave my opinion about it and that's all. There's no point of keeping this going. Plus, I told you all that I wasn't going to continue with it; but, you guys kept talking about.

While you all fight over a logo, I am going to do something useful on here.

[ManiacMaestro]

Add more smilelys for chat pls

[Shienvien]

Add more smilelys for chat pls

Which ones would you like to see? (Headdesk smiley? Evil smiley? WTF smiley?) Could find some. Could make some. Could replace some so that they'd look more uniform in style.

(They're just little .gifs, after all - not too hard to make!)

[Hank]

<Snipped quote by NuttsnBolts>

There is a lot I could say here, but I'll keep it succinct. Panda isn't the type that gets butthurt even when there is insult offered. That sort of critique is generally more of a commentary on the person giving it than on the actual merits of the work being critiqued.

@HeySeuss

#shotsfired

[SgtEasy]

I know this may be asking for too much but........ KAPPA FOR AN EMOTE!! Please!

[Ellri]

Kappa?

[Hank]

The day Twitch leaks onto RPG is the day true shitposting can begin.

[Dark Jack]

Pointless though it may be considering the frequency the mistake occurs - which I presume is part of the reason she has more-or-less stopped correcting people making it, with the other part being that she either doesn't notice anymore or just don't mind enough to ensure that the distinction is made - I still feel like I should correct this when I see it, if for no other reason then simply because it bothers me to see a friend misinterpreted in one way or another:
Shienvien is female.
Just thought you should know.