[OOC] The Outsiders (DC comics based OC Superhero RP)

[Hillan]

This a bad time for Marcus to ask if anyone wants a drink?

[The Patriarch]

Life's hard when you argue for the wrong side lol.

@Lord Wraith

Not really, I just already spend a lot of time exposing people and debunking things, it's pretty easy most of the time lol

[Lord Wraith]

Life's hard when you argue for the wrong side lol.

@Lord Wraith

Not really, I just already spend a lot of time exposing people and debunking things, it's pretty easy most of the time lol

@The Patriarch

Such as?

[The Patriarch]

Life's hard when you argue for the wrong side lol.

@Lord Wraith

Not really, I just already spend a lot of time exposing people and debunking things, it's pretty easy most of the time lol

@The Patriarch

Such as?

@Lord Wraith

Such as the sexual objectification argument and pretty much all of the points that Anita Sarkessian brought up in her videos

[Lord Wraith]

What do you mean by the sexual objectification argument? There's not much to argue there, sexual objectification is very real and consistently happens in media everyday.

[Dragonbud]

What do you mean by the sexual objectification argument? There's not much to argue there, sexual objectification is very real and consistently happens in media everyday.

@Lord Wraith

Amen friend

[The Patriarch]

What do you mean by the sexual objectification argument? There's not much to argue there, sexual objectification is very real and consistently happens in media everyday.

@Lord Wraith

Some of the claims are debatable and then there's the flaw in the argument that only women get sexually objectified. I would like an example please

[Lord Wraith]

What do you mean by the sexual objectification argument? There's not much to argue there, sexual objectification is very real and consistently happens in media everyday.

@Lord Wraith

Some of the claims are debatable and then there's the flaw in the argument that only women get sexually objectified. I would like an example please

@The Patriarch

Your mistake there is assuming I meant only women get sexually objectified. Both genders are sexually objectified however the majority of it happens to women. Look at the magazines lined up by a checkout in a grocery store. Covers for magazines such as Cosmo or a fashion or fitness magazine have objectified models on them, generally skimply clad and photoshopped to fit an 'ideal' figure. The porn industry thrives on sexual objectification and media in general. The world isn't exactly lacking in examples.

[Kablamicus]

Although I have views on this matter I'll refrain from voicing them. However I see this turning sour very fast so ideally could you two take it to a PM or drop it before we get unnecessary drama in the OOC.

[The Patriarch]

Although I have views on this matter I'll refrain from voicing them. However I see this turning sour very fast so ideally could you two take it to a PM or drop it before we get unnecessary drama in the OOC.

@Kablamicus

i warned Sam that it would

[The Patriarch]

What do you mean by the sexual objectification argument? There's not much to argue there, sexual objectification is very real and consistently happens in media everyday.

@Lord Wraith

Some of the claims are debatable and then there's the flaw in the argument that only women get sexually objectified. I would like an example please

@The Patriarch

Your mistake there is assuming I meant only women get sexually objectified. Both genders are sexually objectified however the majority of it happens to women. Look at the magazines lined up by a checkout in a grocery store. Covers for magazines such as Cosmo or a fashion or fitness magazine have objectified models on them, generally skimply clad and photoshopped to fit an 'ideal' figure. The porn industry thrives on sexual objectification and media in general. The world isn't exactly lacking in examples.

@Lord Wraith

But here's the flaw in the argument, I have been exposed to these imagery and yet I have never felt insignificant or less than and do you know why? It's because I know that what I see in the media doesn't reflect who I am. I have talked with plenty of men who agree that even though men are sexually objectified, they don't care because they aren't insecure about themselves or their appearance.

[Hillan]

How is that a flaw in the argument? Is your point that it's one's own fault for getting insulted, or hurt by something? And men are just straight up 'better' than women?` Do you also believe that rape victims are to blame for getting raped for having one too many drinks, or wearing tight clothing, or acting provocatively? Or that assault victims should be blamed for taking "That alley", or not carrying a gun?

[Lord Wraith]

Yeah, like Hillan said, your counter argument is essentially victim blaming. Rewording, your last post could read 'woman are only offended by sexual objectification because they are insecure in who they are." But there's further flaws than that because I'm sure there are women out there every bit as confident as you who aren't offended by sexual objectification. The thing is, they're a minority and in a democratic society the majority rules. When a man is sexual objectified it promotes a healthy well maintained body, why should any guy get offended by that? It's achieveable for anyone willing to put the work into it. But when a woman is objectified, she's layered with makeup, has breast implants, photoshopped to have unattainable curves. It's hardly a fair standard, it's a completely unachievable image that society tells women men want. Sure, society also says women want a guy with six pack abs but look at the popularity of shows such as 'The Big Bang' theory and other media which presents the 'nerd that gets the girl'. Even if a show presents a female nerd she'll likely undergo a makeover before getting the guy she wants. A woman is rarely ever accepted for who she is and that's why sexual objectification is a problem.

[The Patriarch]

How is that a flaw in the argument? Is your point that it's one's own fault for getting insulted, or hurt by something? And men are just straight up 'better' than women?` Do you also believe that rape victims are to blame for getting raped for having one too many drinks, or wearing tight clothing, or acting provocatively? Or that assault victims should be blamed for taking "That alley", or not carrying a gun?

@Hillan

And just like I suspected it got heated and now you seem angry. Can you explain to me how those questions are relevant? When did I say men are better than women? I said I don't take it personally when a man gets objectified and I talk to other guys who don't seem to take it personally. If I was insulted by seeing a gay couple show affection in public then technically by your logic It's perfectly fine for me to go on a crusade against that.

[The Patriarch]

Yeah, like Hillan said, your counter argument is essentially victim blaming. Rewording, your last post could read 'woman are only offended by sexual objectification because they are insecure in who they are." But there's further flaws than that because I'm sure there are women out there every bit as confident as you who aren't offended by sexual objectification. The thing is, they're a minority and in a democratic society the majority rules. When a man is sexual objectified it promotes a healthy well maintained body, why should any guy get offended by that? It's achieveable for anyone willing to put the work into it. But when a woman is objectified, she's layered with makeup, has breast implants, photoshopped to have unattainable curves. It's hardly a fair standard, it's a completely unachievable image that society tells women men want. Sure, society also says women want a guy with six pack abs but look at the popularity of shows such as 'The Big Bang' theory and other media which presents the 'nerd that gets the girl'. Even if a show presents a female nerd she'll likely undergo a makeover before getting the guy she wants. A woman is rarely ever accepted for who she is and that's why sexual objectification is a problem.

@Lord Wraith

I don't watch the Big Bang Theory so I can't comment about it, but my counter argument is not victim blaming, my counter argument is about having confidence ones self. I'm not in support of beauty products and do prefer natural beauty over all of the cosmetics, but I don't believe that promotion of such things is very harmful. From what I have seen, it is personal acquaintances and people that a person encounters in real life that have the biggest effect on how they view themselves. People need support from people they know, they most definitely don't need the help of moral crusaders to censor everything

[Hillan]

I'm not heated, curious, on the other hand. You said men didn't take it personally, implying that women do. Which only leads me to believe that you would think men are better than women? The questions are relevant because you made them relevant with your previously mentioned statement. It's perfectly fine for you to go on a crusade against Gay couples, and it's fine for others to argue with you on it. That's how democrazy and the freedom of speech works.

[Lord Wraith]

I'm not heated, curious, on the other hand. You said men didn't take it personally, implying that women do. Which only leads me to believe that you would think men are better than women? The questions are relevant because you made them relevant with your previously mentioned statement. It's perfectly fine for you to go on a crusade against Gay couples, and it's fine for others to argue with you on it. That's how democrazy and the freedom of speech works.

@Hillan

Lol is democrazy intentional?

[The Patriarch]

I'm not heated, curious, on the other hand. You said men didn't take it personally, implying that women do. Which only leads me to believe that you would think men are better than women? The questions are relevant because you made them relevant with your previously mentioned statement. It's perfectly fine for you to go on a crusade against Gay couples, and it's fine for others to argue with you on it. That's how democrazy and the freedom of speech works.

@Hillan

Fine allow me to clarify, I would tell a man the exact same thing I would tell a woman when it comes sexual objectification, which is don't let it get to you and don't waste your time on that stuff. I mentioned women because I only see women complain about sexual objectification. I believe in equality which includes equal treatment and no special privileges, which includes being very blunt and realistic. Never once did I hint at that I say women are to blame for rape and frankly I find the question going a little too far especially for this forum. I have to agree with Kablamicus, this debate is over, sorry but I have to post and I have somewhere to be soon and I don't want to be late.

[Hillan]

I'm not heated, curious, on the other hand. You said men didn't take it personally, implying that women do. Which only leads me to believe that you would think men are better than women? The questions are relevant because you made them relevant with your previously mentioned statement. It's perfectly fine for you to go on a crusade against Gay couples, and it's fine for others to argue with you on it. That's how democrazy and the freedom of speech works.

@Hillan

Lol is democrazy intentional?

@Lord Wraith

Sure was.

[Lord Wraith]

I'm not heated, curious, on the other hand. You said men didn't take it personally, implying that women do. Which only leads me to believe that you would think men are better than women? The questions are relevant because you made them relevant with your previously mentioned statement. It's perfectly fine for you to go on a crusade against Gay couples, and it's fine for others to argue with you on it. That's how democrazy and the freedom of speech works.

@Hillan

Fine allow me to clarify, I would tell a man the exact same thing I would tell a woman when it comes sexual objectification, which is don't let it get to you and don't waste your time on that stuff. I mentioned women because I only see women complain about sexual objectification. I believe in equality which includes equal treatment and no special privileges, which includes being very blunt and realistic. Never once did I hint at that I say women are to blame for rape and frankly I find the question going a little too far especially for this forum. I have to agree with Kablamicus, this debate is over, sorry but I have to post and I have somewhere to be soon and I don't want to be late.

@The Patriarch

Perhaps if your gender was constantly displayed as love interests, sex objects and eye candy you might feel differently. How is asking for the depiction of women in media to be something else a special privilege? Sure friends, family and loved ones are great influences on a person, but the fact remains the allure of Hollywood and fame is over powering. Why would anyone want to be normal when if they looked a certain way they could be famous, or have hundreds of admirers? Society doesn't teach us to be comfortable with who were are, what we look like and where we come from, it encourages us to look a certain way, act a certain way and strive for money and power. And it does this through sex, which of course leads to sexual objectification. Sure you can turn a blind eye to it, ignore that it happens and tell people to toughen up and get over it. The fact remains that the majority of people disagree and that industry only gets away with it because sex sells. Just because you and your 'friends' can ignore and not let it bother you doesn't make it right for all those it does negatively affect and that's the root of the problem here. The fact it does do harm leading to eating disorders and insecurity over rules anything else. I'm not just talking women either, it affects men too and while as you said you just ignore it and move along great for you, but being 'blunt' isn't going to fix anything and what you do is anything but realistic.