[OOC] Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

[Cyclone]

@Cyclone @Rtron @Kho

I don't mean to sound pushy, but have I been accepted?

@Gimmickly

You're all set!

I'd LIKE to think a few Realta could fight a weaker Avatar to a standstill. Probably last a significant (see a minute) against a God if more of its Brethren or Logos himself was there. They're hardy little bugfers. But once a Realta dies that's it.

@Dawnscroll

I actually looked back and found this.

1 MP used to create the Realta (20,000)

So just FYI there's the inconsistency between the apparent 20,000 typed in that post and the 10,000 you're now saying, but it doesn't matter much for the sake of what I'm about to say. The fact that you threw a total of 1 Might into a bunch of automatons that don't seem to derive power from elsewhere means that we're talking about these 3,300 Realta you're sending being made from a third of a Might Point. That's the combined power between them.

The point here being that since it takes 1 MP to make even a level 1 hero, what heroes we have probably wouldn't be as much of a pushover as you're thinking.

[Antarctic Termite]

Finished character sheets for the Spiral Script and Caliginous Mangrove! They can be found here.

Neither of them are even remotely necessary reading, these posts already tell you everything there is to know IC. The script one especially is dry and can be summarised as 'tl;dr circular Gallifreyan ripoff'. The mangrove one isn't bad but it's just a short, tidy recap of the IC post, which is itself not necessary reading either.

Still practicing on that whole 'concise' thing.

[Dawnscroll]

I'm not gonna lie. I'm ultimately looking for either a quasi peaceful solution of sole sort that dictates Logos must withdraw his forces, or our guys battering each other into a standstill. Vec and Kho know that Logos needs to return to Arcon at one point for stuff to continue.

[Vec]

Vec and Kho know that Logos needs to return to Arcon at one point for stuff to continue.

@Dawnscroll

W-wait... I do?! Huh.

[Kho]

@Cyclone I think this Realta power issue is quite interesting, and it's something I've been thinking about since Dawnscroll's revelation about their strength. The way in which we approach it will have some big implications as to how we want the Might system to work. Here's the way I would approach it:

What exactly does giving something Might entail? If a human created with 1 Might (lets call him Jeff) goes up against a non-Might human, we can all agree that the 1 Might human would win. But what would happen if Jeff were to go up against, say, Gra the non-Might Treemind? Gra would, on his own, be able to wipe the floor with a human, but would Jeff be able to beat him regardless? What if Jeff was going up against a Grot-sized beast, created with no Might?
The question here is of a creation's 'base power without Might' (if we ignore the 1 Might necessary to create any species of note as a 'transaction cost'). Realta, as a creation, have a very high base power - one that would probably put them above most other creations if we ignore Might. The question, then, becomes of whether Jeff's (base power + 1 Might) is greater than the base power of a Realta.

If we decide to go with a literal approach, then Vowzra's Victors, created with 4 Might, can probably go against the invading Realta and beat them quite soundly - but would that make sense? Is the (base power of Vowzra's Victors + 4 Might) enough for them to soundly defeat a force of Realtas? I think that is the issue at hand. It's up to you guys to work out how you want to approach it - should, for instance, the base power of a species be reflected in the original Might expended on creating them? i.e. a species created with 2 Might is immediately more powerful than one created with 1 Might? How would that work if, for instance, someone creates a race of sloths with 10 Might and another creates a race of dragons with 1 Might?

Or is this all just academic? xD

[Cyclone]

I prefer not to turn this into a numbers and stats game by thinking about it too hard. It should probably just be determined on a case-by-case basis as makes sense.

Being so literal with Might would also mean that the elementals would be disproportionately powerful by this standard (I think 1 Might, some of Astarte's magic-in-a-jar, and then his domain powers over Change were used in their making), though maybe that's fair since Zeph did break the rules and subsequently got punished.

[Dawnscroll]

@Vec *smacks forhead* Rtron... I meant Rtron. Because this genuinely isn't the Arcon vs Galbar thing I've been talking about.

@Cyclone Yeah, but at one point you gotta hand wave stats for the story. I have a 10 Might Sword and I'm level 7. Technically, according to the stats, that let's me kill/maim some of the gods, outright kill the Demigod, and punt kick the heroes halfway across the globe.

But there's no point to that and I wouldn't do that. There's a story to be told here.

If we really want to get right down to the nitty gritty of things, Logos doesn't even need the invasion. Use his domain, make a black hole next to Galbar, call it a day.

But ALL of that should come second to the story. What sounds like better writing; a host of alien automati from another world that are setting fire to the Landscape, that armies have diffulty killing even one, forcing heroes to band together to stop the otherworldly threat and grow stronger in their own right, for there's an enemy that has only pure logic fueling it.... or one hero swinging by and casually handling the Realta inconvenience.

Is it better writing for Lipfrasil, emperor of the world, to engage Logos in a desperate bid to stop him... to feel the weight Order god's sword bear down upon him, his arms tired and shaking as he holds his ground, body sore and tired, sword and shield clashing together for hours and day... or for Logos to impale the guy with a Ten Might sword on the first swi g and watch him get sucked into the event horizon because the stats tell us so.

Logos invested all of the Realta's potential into combat. They will never form their own aociety, never have children, never create, they can't even heal. One day, there will be no Realta. But the Hain, Humans, an angels will still be here, kicking it.

And honestly, if this idea bothers everyone here so much, I'll retroactively investment more of my current Might into the Realta. IF thr stats are what matter here.

[Vec]

@Kho I am a 1 Might dragon and I find this post offensive.

Anyhow, i thought it was established that the might expended in creating an intelligent race was set at 1. It says so in the OP and that's why I didn't really put more might in my dragons.

And I always thought that ultimately, the key point to consider when dealing with a race's power level is the rate of their reproduction. Slower reproduction generally means a higher level of power per individual whilst higher rate of reproduction means having the advantage of numbers in expense of individual power.

This is my two cents, take it as you will.

[Cyclone]

@Dawnscroll

You're more or less in agreement with me there. Note that I never said that your Realta would get stomped if they came anywhere close to my little hero with his 10 Might scepter, simply that you're not giving the heroes enough credit.

As you pointed out, narrative is more interesting if there's a struggle anyways. I don't see a point in just having the Realta bombard Galbar from orbit; much better in my eyes to send them down so that there can be an actual fight.

[Kho]

@Kho I am a 1 Might dragon and I find this post offensive.

Anyhow, i thought it was established that the might expended in creating an intelligent race was set at 1. It says so in the OP and that's why I didn't really put more might in my dragons.

And I always thought that ultimately, the key point to consider when dealing with a race's power level is the rate of their reproduction. Slower reproduction generally means a higher level of power per individual whilst higher rate of reproduction means having the advantage of numbers in expense of individual power.

This is my two cents, take it as you will.

@Vec

I think I used the slow rate of reproduction point to balance out the Treeminds (and it is a unique feature of bears anyway), but that was never meant to be any kind of official way of portraying power level. And yes, one can use as much Might as they want to create a species.

[Dawnscroll]

@Cyclone Yup. That was the plan from the beginning anyway. End of the day, they're gonna destroy some some shit, Logos is gonna plant a few flowers, cross swords with people, the Hain and Galbar humans will have a healthy fear of the Order God, might fling some might here or there to add my own small touch to the landscape, and we go home to lick our wounds for the true war.

[Kho]

the true war.

@Dawnscroll

That's the one Vowzra meant. Not this little skirmish.

[Dawnscroll]

@Kho *watches as the Realta glass a significant portion of Galbar* Funny thing. By the time the true war comes around, I intend for only 3 of this guys to be left.

[Muttonhawk]

Ooh, ooh! Can I throw my opinion in as well? *bright eyes*

I would be happy to handle might with case-by-case discretion. If anything might should be be more a case of "how much effort would have to be invested to stop this." Having that much as a limited and quantifiable resource is very useful. A little wiggle room is only fair, otherwise the quantities become too arbitrary.

(Before reading on, keep in mind that Dawnscroll is not at the point of doing what I'm about to outline, but someone joining in could be in the future without us knowing. All food for thought and nothing else.)

However, in the case of the realta, there's a limitation revealed in that system. Being so deliberately constructed for being better than most of what could be offered up, the realta present a danger that discretionary might use could become a meta-game. If someone can argue their physics knowledge alongside the limits of what might can to do say "I make the biggest club that can kill anything and no one can stop it ever no take-backsies I win," it steps out of the realms of story and into game territory. There's a conflict between players waiting to happen. Dawnscroll gave the black hole example and that's pretty much a perfect case in point.

For instance, I know Conata's person isn't in much danger from the killer club as it's probably not going to do much to her before she is able to retaliate. However, that might not be the expectation of the person who created the killer club. Then there springs forth a silly argument about expectations (disguised as nattering about mechanics when it's such a loose system already). Then somebody throws a tantrum and takes their ball home. Then the RP grinds to a halt because we're all walking on eggshells by that point. And then everyone feels disappointed.

Rather than let might become a set-in-stone thing, I would rather mitigate the issue by setting a few points of understanding to make up for it. These are just suggestions for everyone else, but they are how I treat others here:

1. Whatever makes a cool story should come first. I think we all know what that means given the quality of writing we have here.

2. People should have a say before you go messing with their stuff. So far, from what I've experienced, everyone who's interacted with my things has been considerate and asked clarification when they're uncertain. That's actually really good. When that doesn't happen, people flatten stuff that you put effort into and they do so with nothing more than a post or two; that's not fun.

3. Be prepared to have your stuff messed with. We're interacting characters, some things aren't going to go to plan. There is generally a lot of chaos with this many authors. This chaos spreads to compromise impregnable defences, unstoppable hordes, and generally anything that you're certain of. If you want things to go exactly to plan, go write something on your own. The chaos is actually one of the reasons that I love RPs the most, both play-by-post and otherwise, so it's probably the most important point here.

4. As in improv theatre, beware the word 'no' and treat it with respect. That's not to say that you should never say no, just that you should explore the possibilities before you say make a decision. Outright refusal is the quickest way to kill plot that could develop a character in ways you may not have considered.

Anyway, a rant had to come from me at some point. It may as well have actually been related to the RP. Keep in mind, I am aware that I'm not a GM, so none of what I say is da roolz az rit'n.

[Dawnscroll]

so none of what I say is da roolz az rit'n.

@Muttonhawk

I'm a little embarassed to admit... for about 20 minutes I thought this was the Dovahkiin speak from Skyrim and have been trying to translate it.

[Vec]

@Muttonhawk I think I have been preaching these points since the beginning, especially point 3. Whenever I put anything out there in the IC, I always do it expecting things to not go as planned. That's why I strive to have a solid foundation that can be built upon should the need arise.

But for the sake of potential plot, I always leave ways that other people can maneuvre around and try to break my stuff.

ON A SIDE NOTE
Logos is almighty cannonically and in my opinion, Astarte, believe it or not, is the only person that can stand on his path for the sole reason that she embodies the one thing his powers do not influence. The metaphysical, magic. Literally, we got the classic magic vs science battle here.

I find this the perfect chance to develop Astarte @Frettzo and I would not even mind it if Ull was trashed a little in the process, if it's for the sake of a better story. I think this applies to all of us.

EDIT: Logos is almighty because Vowzra is dead. Vowzra had the most broken potential in my head cannon and now @Kho offed him... Tch tch

[Frettzo]

@Vec yeah, I'm slowly realizing this is the make-or-break story arc for Astarte. Don't you guys worry, though, Astarte won't let Galbar be glassed (in its entirety, at least xD)!

[Dawnscroll]

@Vec That reminds me, any chance someone would mind dropping a few actual dragons on Arcon further down the road. I was actually talking to Fretzo last night about a Logos vs Astarte thing. . .

Of course, if Astarte JOINS Logos... GG everyone. You of course can all avoid this and do the sensible thing by acknowledging him as your King however

[Vec]

@Dawnscroll As I am typing from my phone and I am starting to get irritated by the constant spelling mistakes i male and have to correct whilst typing, I will talk about that when i get back home. I have a very specific plan for dragon breeds. Aside from that, I have yet to post the dragons even hatching but im open to anything, as long as its logical.

[Dawnscroll]

So general question to the class here. I'm trying to keep Logos in a very particular mentality, personality, and theme and I'm not quite sure if I'm suceeding with that.

Basically... how do you all view Logos? Describe him back to me.

Because I'm either conveying the concept well or utterly balling it up.