Dion

From Dawn Till Dusk (Civilization Evolution RP)(Over)

3D? pfft. We need 4D so we can play chess.

From Dawn Till Dusk (Civilization Evolution RP)(Over)

I'd probably have to do some research into the size of say, Europe and North Africa and then do some looking into how long campaigns were. I know a lot of ancient wars lasted years simply due to how long it took just to reach the enemy. I assumed time would move faster after the first year or so.

@Ascendant

Here's the source I used and this is me placing the scale over the image of Europe until it fits. It is roughly 8 x 500km/300mi = 4.000km/2.400mi from west to east/east to west. Doing the same to the map we have nets us this which is;

West: 4x600mi + 360mi = 2760mi
East: 3x600mi + 360mi and then some = 2160mi

So for us to travel 'Europe style' from east-to-west would net us 2760+2160mi = 4920mi, which is bigger than Europe by.... a long shot. Converted it is roughly 7917.972km, almost double the size of Europe -- which is 1 continent, and we have two, so for our RP to make more sense, it'd be the equivalent of the French campaign into Russia, travel wise. And that's using this stupid method of trying to figure out how wide/tall Europe is on the map. :l

In short; currently traveling to another tribe for whatever reason you might have on foot is a task that you really can't reasonably accomplish if we don't suspend our disbelief, which makes early primitive trade like it existed irl virtually impossible (I can't trade flint for pelts, or whatever).

From Dawn Till Dusk (Civilization Evolution RP)(Over)

@Odin I think you just have a poor taste in aesthetics, the turbo fashionable skull pots are the real deal

No, I completely understand what you mean. And, I agree with you as well. But let me put it this way: when I pitched the idea of the RP, I told you this would take a long time and that posts would be of different length. Right now things are shot n sweet, because there is a lot to do in teh close proximity. But when the distances and time become great, this will change too. From a writing standpoint, it will not be much different since you will gradually have more and more reasons to explore and look for new lands and resources, and eventually meet others. Don't have copper? Well, you will need to buy that from your mountain neighbour in exchange for some wheat you grow. Will it take a while? Yes. Can establishing trade fit into one post that encompasses half a year or a year? Yes, absolutely.

I want everybody's race to develop in a more natural way and truly feel real. If distances are only numbers for a fashionable map, than can a race truly appreciate the speed at which a horse can take them to a nearby village or town? Can they appreciate the journey of a traveler or a merchant if it doesn't take more than a day or two to cross the continent?

Now, i'm not saying that will never be the case. We can always do revisions of the map, I'm willing to shrink it even further (and replace the scales for future maps) if we want less distance between places. That, or once the people are actually inclined to go and explore or perhaps trade, then we can yada-yada that part. If it takes our glowing brain primitives a year to reach the steam age, I probably don't mind because we'll have passed an entire year IRL too considering the length and complexity of NRP posts.

To be clear, I'm really not saying you are wrong, heck, you're right about many things (except the turbo fashionable skull pots and corgis. You monster), and I'm just saying what I think. Maintaining the balance between fun and realistic is the biggest challenge for any NRP or Civilization video game. Finding that sweet spot between realism and fun that still doesn't break the immersion.

@6slyboy6

I think yadda-yaddaing the distances might be the best option, then, since detailing over and over how far everything is and how totally realistic that is to the real world etc. is totally boring and unimaginative for the creative process of, yknow, writing a post. I don't think we need a rescale or anything invasive like that, but so long as we all agree to suspend our disbelief and just go 'haha dude I totally just turbo-walked 60km in a day while also doing chores' I'm totally fine with that lol.

Also yes I am eager to meet other races, how'd you find out?

From Dawn Till Dusk (Civilization Evolution RP)(Over)

@6slyboy6 well yes it was the same, that’s why when the Romans fucked off every village became isolated. Essentially that means that until we have horses, we can’t really connect with other races anyway.

I’ll put it like this: what reason would my people have to go, say, east and meet another race if there is no benefit in trade, and there is most definitely no benefit in bloodshed (it takes what.. probably close to two weeks to even come close to another race, at which point I’d say that if it takes you two weeks to find someone to fight, they’re probably not much of a threat).

Roleplaying on my own is fine and well but as I understood it the goal is ultimately also to see how my race might interact with the others, but if it takes half a year for my guys to travel south and meet race xyz, then why would I interact with them? Unless we are going to create a silk route, in which case: why? I’m not going to be buying turbo fashionable skull pots that are found 6 months away when I really could just as well kill my pet turtles and use their shell as a bowl. So in my eyes, the distances we have to cross kinda make it seem like we’re gonna be going at it solo for a long as time which seems to go against the purpose of a collaborative roleplay..?

From Dawn Till Dusk (Civilization Evolution RP)(Over)

@Odin I just assumed you were on the northern edge with the trees from which it's a walkable distance if you are very determined to get some pet turtles. But otherwise? Yeah...probably not very realistic. And keep in mind that I already told you guys to count all teh distances at half compared to the ruler (200 pixels is 60 miles if you want to get into it). It's a big map man, and I still went for only a smaller part of the world. This is exactly why I never feel like making maps for NRPs where supposedly the whole world is on one map, and every pixels is like a thousand kilometers or so

@Crusader Lord I agree. If you get Corgis then you are the true winner, and nobody can take that away from you. Not even man-eating plant people that you will totally not face. Never. Pinky promise.

Edit: Heck, that was a great post haha. I really enjoyed that one, you get kudos for it. That's pretty much what I was expecting/hoping for. Of course, let's not forget about Tal and Odin who bravely paved the way for the second turn haha :D

@6slyboy6

I think I’ll just suspend my disbelief then and just go with “it’s a fantasy world and a wonky map” because my guys running those distances over and over and the lesbian huntresses traveling so far really doesn’t make much sense when you consider the scale... if it’s a scale large enough to where the curvature of the earth apparently comes into play can we really expect primitives who barely understand how to make fire to:

A) track prey outside of that area (prey that is literally already several days from their camp)
B) travel into that unknown area willingly
C) kill an animal, take the valuables and then
D) take it all the way back over the course of several days? Somehow remembering exactly where they were despite it being unknown territory?

Much less when we actually contact other races. Traveling from one village to the next would probably take literal months making the trip far more expensive food and supply wise than trade or conquest could reasonably net you..?

As for language, I do propose we use something like <“I love bananas”> where the <> denote “foreign language” whereas regular “I like peanuts I am monky” would indicate a form of common tongue? It makes writing dialogue a tad bit more sensible when I can just write the dialogue in English without having
to write every sentence twice: once to say it, and once to explain what “hu hu whish whash” means.

From Dawn Till Dusk (Civilization Evolution RP)(Over)

<Snipped quote by Odin>

Obviously, I don't require everybody to be doing pixel measurments like myself, but I gave you about a 60 kilometer vision bubble when I drew the vision for you. ALL of you guys have an initial circle drawn that is 250 kilometers across. So the map is accurate for visions, heck, even generous with forest and starting vision. There's no way your people could see further than that unless ther eyes could see around the curviture of the horizon

@6slyboy6

If it's 250km or so, then is it even realistic that my guys are going down to the beach and back in a day? :/ Seems like that's way too distant.

Wolves are pack animals. If you intend on feeding them until they become adorable corgis who sit in your lap, then you'll need a lot of meat XD

Hey man I never said it'd work, just saying they're starting the process of attempting to, and I'm going to keep attempting to until it works. ;)))))))

From Dawn Till Dusk (Civilization Evolution RP)(Over)

@Odin - I appreciate the extra effort in the actions section, but please refrain from modifying the maps where you can't see them. First, that's just bad manners against the poor map generator, and second because it will avoid surprises like a sudden hill or river or something familiar appearing on what you assume is flat terrain or hills. Let's just go by the flat earther principle and blame not being able to see down the beach any further on electromagnetism and water vapour lol

@6slyboy6

Well, if this is how you interpret us being able to shape the topography, as you said:

Like I said, you should be able to come up with your own topography and I can add it to the map. But looking at the topo, where you guys are is at a generally higher altitude than the areas around you.

then I will go with that, but if that is the case it really would make sense that we could see as far as possible unless the terrain goes up, because it doesn't make sense that I can only see in a circle around me and anything further than that is somehow a mystery, when in real life I can look across a flat field and determine, hey, 20km further it's still flat field and I didn't see a mountain between me and the flat field 20km further, so it's reasonable to assume that the terrain maintains a flat field. :/

- I like wolves, they are cool. But you just focus on the story and lore, and I'll deide if throwing meat at a feral animal counts as beginning of their taming XD

I meant for that to be your call, obviously, as it was much more him just bribing the animal with meat, and whether that will count towards the wolf being less of an asshole or not is up to you.

From Dawn Till Dusk (Civilization Evolution RP)(Over)

@Tal the price is 1 firefruit and a fae to keep as a pet. :)

From Dawn Till Dusk (Civilization Evolution RP)(Over)

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^{Day 1, Week 5, Cycle 1: Heidevolk Expansion
Springtime - Beginning of Monsoon Season, 17 C°, Cloudy}

A sudden clap of thunder woke most of the Volk early in the morrow, causing them to shoot up from their slumber in their little huts. It was raining, and they could hear it through the thin walls made of branches and leaves. Luckily it kept them dry, but the shelters were not quite advanced enough to be able to withstand the winds and rainstorms that would come soon. Slowly, one by one, the Volk came out of their huts, some of them in pairs as they had joined together for the night for more entertaining things than sleep as apparently not all instincts had disappeared, and collectively they stared at the sky. In the north it was still relatively clear, in the south the skies became gradually darker. The rain did not seem to bother them now, more so than the prospect of the incoming season. They had never been 'aware' of the monsoon so much as they had just gone through it. They had never prepared for it either, and mostly just found shelter whenever the weather turned. But now that they were acutely aware of their position and the danger that the incoming weather changes posed to them, they realized that they could not stay here and do nothing like they had done for years before.

Some of the Volk went back into their huts, perhaps to catch some more sleep or to continue their activities with their partners, while others began moving around and getting ready for the day. One Volk in particular, the strong, muscular Volk that had made a rather powerful, if unintelligible speech the night they received their sapience, did not agree with this, and he screamed out loud, “HRRAAAAAA! HUUUUU!!” while raising his fists to the sky, catching the attention of the Volk again. Several came out of their huts again to see what allthe commotion was about. “Hugha, hugha!” the Strongvolk proclaimed, beckoning for everyone to come closer. He was attempting to secure a position of authority, very clearly, but none of the others objected, yet, until they had heard what he wanted from them.

“Hu, hu,” he said, pointing at the two young Volk that had explored the beach earlier, “go! Hu hu! Go! Hunga hu!” while beckoning towards the sea again, and roughly ordering them to scavenge for items. He then pointed to himself, and then gestured towards the oceans direction, before continuing, “EGEIN! MIE GO HUUH!” Clearly, 'Egein' was referring to what he thought to be his name, and he was telling the rest that he would come with them to see what they were doing. The two younger Volk nodded, seemingly agreeing, but one of the older more mature Volk stepped up and disagreed, violently shaking his head.

“HA!” he screamed, walking closer to the Strongvolk that was named Egein, and once again yelled out, “MIE GO!” It seemed he was indicating that he should go with the two young Volk, and in turn this meant he was challenging the Strongvolks' recently established authority. Without much warning, the Strongvolk cocked his fist back and sent it forwards, straight into the challengers' jaw, sending him down to the ground. Without even offering the Volk so much as a chance, the Strongvolk climbed on top of him to prevent him from getting back up, and reached to the side, grabbing a nice, large round rock, and began smashing it into the challengers' head, over and over. The rest of the Volk simply looked on. They didn't really understand violence between the Volk -- not in this way, at least, as violence was relatively common during the mating season back when they were still animals -- and didn't really understand that the Volk on the ground was slowly being killed, every strike with the rock bringing him closer to death.

By the time the Strongvolk had been convinced that he had reasserted his claim to the leadership of the 'tribe,' there was not much left of the face of the Volk on the ground. Slowly, Egein got up and dropped the bloodied rock, looking around the tribe. “GO HU!” he said, gesturing at one of the other Volk, indicating that he had changed his mind and didn't want to go to the ocean after all. It seemed like a strange thing to do after attacking someone because they wanted to go to the ocean instead, but perhaps the crux of the issue had not been about the ocean at all. Egein gestured towards himself again, and now gestured towards the direction of the forest. “Mie go! Hu hu!” It seemed that he wanted to hunt now, and he pointed at three different Volk, beckoning them to come with him. He selected three males, as they were the more muscular of the bunch, and perhaps Egein thought they would be more suitable for whatever hunting strategy he had in mind.

The two young Volk and the hand-selected 'guardian' started moving towards the ocean, once again following the path of the river, since it was the only way down to the bay without having to climb down arduous cliffsides of dark rock.

The remaining four Volk would stand around the body of the dead Volk in the center, waiting for him to get back up. He did not. Slowly, one of them bent down to touch him, and when she touched him, the body was already cold, much colder than usual. Slowly she shook him, but there came no response, his eyes staring lifelessly into the grey sky, rain pouring down onto him. “Hmmmmmm... huuuuuu!” she cried out into the sky, and the other Volk joined her in this mourning call. As if the gods had heard her, a flash of white light followed by the clap of thunder followed, perhaps indicating that the Volk had crossed over to 'the other side,' or perhaps a signal that the Gods had heard their mourning cry and mourned with them. The concept of 'murder' had been invented, and the historians of the future would know it was the Heidevolk that killed their own kind first. Well, unless you counted the cannibal fae that ate their own kind out of instinct..

The 'burial' was primitive. They carried the body not too far away from the camp, to a more swampy bog area of the area. There, they unceremoniously pushed the body into the bog, which bubbled as it received the body. Unbeknownst to them, when the body sank to the bottom of the bog and became a part of the bog, it would most likely be decently preserved. Together, the four Volk walked back to the camp, and began shoring up their defenses against the weather, reinforcing their huts with more branches that were pushed into the soil, to keep them from moving too much.

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The Site of the Bog Burial

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The plan for the hunt had been orchestrated by Egein, who had used a stick to draw in the dirt once they'd reached the forest. The illustration was meant to illustrate the strategy of scaring a deer into running towards a Volk that would be hiding behind a rock with a sharpened stake, ready to punch a hole straight through the creature. Obviously, the one that would deliver the killing blow was Egein, the Strongvolk, since he was the leader and the leader deserved to do the honours.

Once it was all said and done, it would take several hours for the three Volk to even find a deer before they could even begin to lure it towards Egein. The Volk were not originally carnivores and thus had never 'hunted' in the same vein that a predator might have, so most of the finer touches of hunting were lost on them for now while they got their bearings on this new concept. Once they found the deer, everything went very quickly. The three of them chased the deer around, screaming and flailing with their sharpened sticks, constantly trying to get it to move towards where they thought Egein was, drawing it closer and closer.

Once it finally reached Egein, he jumped out and with a satisfying yell pushed the sharpened stake into the creatures flank, and using his superior strength, pushed the animal over into the ground using the leverage of the spear. He pulled the spear out again, and then pushed it back into the animal, this time striking it in the heart, ending the creatures life. “HAHAHAHA!” Egein bellowed, satisfied with his kill, and the three other Volk seemed happy too, smiling at eachother for their ability to complete this chore.

Egein sent the three other Volk back to tell the ones that remained to prepare the fire, as they would eat good tonight. Alone, he took his flint stone and began using it to cut up parts of the animal. Since leatherwork was not yet known to him, he simply cut up the skin wherever he felt the need to, ruining much of the hide. Unbeknownst to him, in the shadow of a nearby rocky outcropping, a sinister creature lurked, watching Egein as he worked the animal. Slowly, the animal approached, coming closer and closer, until it accidentally stepped upon a branch.

The hunter quickly turned around and reached for his stake, but it was too far away, and so it came to be he was now eye-to-eye with a dangerous predator. Though the Volk would have hated to admit it, he was shaking in his... lack of boots. Armed with nothing but a piece of flint in one hand and a piece of meat in the other, the Volk stared the animal down, trying to intimidate it into leaving. Slowly the Volk stood up, rising to his feet and standing ready to defend himself and his kill. “HSssssss..” he hissed, trying to scare the animal into leaving. Unfortunately, the beast was rather stubborn, and simply stood there observing the creature that he most likely thought was interesting, but stupid.

Suddenly Egein jumped forward, waving his flint around wildly, once again trying to scare the animal, but the distance was too great and the wolf simply stepped back slightly, before showing its teeth and growling. “Hu! Hu!” Egein proclaimed, and he threw the piece of meat towards the wolf in fear. Many Volk had been victim to the great wolf during their period as animals, and even now, with sapience, the Volk would fear the creature.

The wolf simply took its offering into its mouth and, after observing Egein for a while longer, slowly stepped back towards the rocky outcropping, where it laid down and observed Egein. Too scared to continue working with his back turned towards the animal, Egein stepped towards the other side of the wolf, and slowly began cutting up the animal. When the wolf finished its meal, Egein would simply throw another small piece of meat to bribe the animal into, well, not killing him.

It seemed to work. Sort of.

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At the ocean, the Volk had just wandered down the small hillside that lead down to the bay, and began scavenging the mossy and sandy beach. They were looking for anything of value to them, from seashells to fish to turtles. And when they finally found a turtle, all they had to do was run up to it, grab it and turn it on its back so that they could grab it when they were ready to go home. After a while, there were probably close to five turtles that had been turned on their back, of varying sizes. It was a rather hilarious sight if you ignored the fact that the animals would most likely be dead by the time the night fell.

The other items they found were mostly decorative, ranging from sea shells to colorful round pebbles, rounded by the ocean water, to clams and small fish that had washed ashore. None of it was particularly valuable, save perhaps the turtles, but it all served a purpose, especially the sea shells and colorful stones. Once they had gathered all of it up, they began hauling it back, with one of the Volk stacking three overturned turtles on top of each other to carry them all at once. Yes, tonight would be a feast.

Or would it be?

Once they came back to the camp, they put three of the turtles into the small pond in their camp, and began feeding it some of the smaller dead fish they'd found. Perhaps it was an entertaining way to keep the turtles for later. Or perhaps they had thought them to be 'pets,' in as far as turtles could be pet. No real 'training' of the animals was required, so to speak, so we could not reasonably speak of animal husbandry. The animals were still as wild as they had been before, and the purpose for which the Volk had taken them was unclear, since turtles were not particularly fast breeders, so using them for a prolonged source of meat was, well, idiotic. Perhaps they were just decoration, as the Volk began putting the sea shells and clams down in the pond, 'recreating' the environment that the turtles lived in. A primitive, and stupid, zoo, perhaps?

actions

• -1 population (murder)
• 'Hierarchy' established, sort of
• The first hunt was a success
• Also, Egein bribed a wolf to leave him alone (beginning of taming wolves)
• Gathering of 5 turtles and sea shells, colorful stones, and small (dead) fish at the ocean
• Two turtles are killed for food and their shell, the three remaining turtles are put in a stupid zoo, because the Heidevolk aren't smart yet

The map as the Heidevolk know it

LEGEND:
Red dot: the great oak, atop a hill in the heath fields
Yellow tint: the hillside leading down to the beach, following the river
The black tint: cliffsides
The yellow tint: black sand beach
The green tint: grassy area on the beach
The blue tint: waterfall baby
The number 1!: a large cliff island in the middle of the bay, kinda like this but bigger, currently can't be reached with existing technology

From Dawn Till Dusk (Civilization Evolution RP)(Over)

@Tal Do you happen to have the original for the image you use as a header? I could clean it up to remove the white outline a little, if you'd like?