Master Bruce

CLOSED - Ultimate One Universe: Season One

Y'know, in theory, the idea of Dick Grayson being a young prodigy cop who's more Jim Gordon's protégé instead of Batman's could have worked, especially since the Nolanverse prided itself on being 'realistic' (made-up superweapons and ancient ninja cults notwithstanding). But that would have required Nolan and company to not treat the character like they resented his very existence.

@AndyC

There's always been a weird stigma with Robin that I've never understood. People act as though the minute that he was introduced in the comics, Batman was ruined and "the darkness" was gone forever. Despite the fact that Robin was introduced about a year after Batman was, being one of the earliest parts of the mythology to remain.

I guess it's just because he's a kid, and nobody buys into a grown man throwing a kid out there into an open battlefield, which I guess is an acceptable caveat - if this weren't fantasy and absolutely nobody lapped up every single scene of the character of Hit-Girl whenever the first Kick-Ass movie came out. There's a strange idea that because Robin is bright and colorful, he fucks with Batman's goals of scaring people and being a brooding vigilante and always being a loner who can do it all by himself, despite Alfred, Gordon, and all the other supporting cast. When infact, the opposite is true.

Bruce has been rendered to be so far on the edge of slipping from being able to hold up his morality above all else that he needs someone there to hold him back, and remind him that what he does needs to be done for the sake of heroism, not personal vengeance or hatred of the criminal element. Giving him a surrogate son who doesn't give a crap about being one with the shadows and being spooky adds alot more to Batman's character than just having him be out there by himself because Bruce not only tolerates it, but leans on it as an acceptable caveat to just going nuts and snapping the necks of every criminal he comes into contact with.

Which is why I'm looking forward to building to UOU's version of Robin, because my Batman is very intentionally being written to show why Bruce without the sidekicks ever being a factor doesn't quite work as well as some might think.

CLOSED - Ultimate One Universe: Season One

I know I've said it before, but the one thing that really annoys me about Michelle Jones is the same thing that annoys me about JGL in Dark Knight Rises. Back when they were still trying to pass off 'John Blake' as some new mystery character, Nolan and company kept going "Oh nooo, we're totally never gonna have Robin, why would we ever have Robin, nobody wants Robin, so we're never gonna do it," and then right at the end of the movie they go "Ha, he was Robin all along, we fooled you!" They did the same thing with Zendaya, they kept saying she's a new character, and she's totally not MJ, then right at the end "Oh hahaha, she was actually MJ the whole time, we fooled you!" That's not a trick, it's not pulling a fast one, it's just lying.

If you're gonna make a major change to a character, have the decency to commit to the bit. Don't just lie to the audience and then pretend you're clever for doing so. And could it kill you to at the very least dye a red streak in her hair or something to give her some slight indication as to who she's supposed to be?

@AndyC

Again, I think this is indicative of studio culture seeing the internet as this horrible haven for spoilers more than anything. They don't even announce the names of anyone aside from the lead hero anymore, and it's annoying on it's own, because telling us who is going to be appearing in the movie actually helps build hype, not deflate it or ruin some big surprise. Sometimes we don't even get to hear who the villain of the movie is until closer to release, which in itself is baffling, because half of the point of a superhero movie is "Who the hell are they fighting? Oh, shit, that character? Where can I get my tickets now?!"

Though, with Nolan, I suspect something a bit different and wholly unique in his case. I think he was pretty much put in a position to introduce Robin or not get the movie made, either from Warner Bros. or his more comic book-centric brother screenwriter, so he came up with the most backhanded compromise imaginable. I don't think Nolan ever actually intended to do Robin in any way. I think he just really liked working with Levitt on Inception and wanted a role for him, got the "C'mon! We need Robin once if this is the end!" schpeel, and said to everyone "Goddammit, fine. Joseph Gordon-Levitt can play Robin. But don't call him that! And have him just be a lousy fucking cop who accidentally shoots people to death and is somehow worthy to carry on the mantle of the Batman with absolutely no training!"

_{(I don't know if anyone knows this, given the amount of times I've ranted about it, but I haaate The Dark Knight Rises.)}

I need to work on posts instead of talking to people.

@Inkarnate

*looks at last time you posted*

Yeah. You do.

CLOSED - Ultimate One Universe: Season One

3.) Flash Thompson: Now, this is the controversial one because you either think the update makes sense or it doesn't. And I'm not really going to rehash the discussion we've already been having vis-a-vis that particular point. But what I will say in response to @Master Bruce's post is that his issue with jock-Flash seems to be that he's a flat character... is that really the character's fault, though, or is it unimaginative writers squandering the potential there? The fact that jock-Flash has such a big following certainly attests to the fact that in the right hands, he can be just as compelling as anyone else in the supporting cast. We just haven't seen it, and now that we have nerd-Flash we probably won't for a long, long time. (Hence the sore spot.)

@Eddie Brock

Oh, don't get me wrong, I do like the jock version of Flash quite alot in the comics and the animated shows. My problem is that the movies just don't have a really big frame of time to establish his more likeable quirks, such as being a massive Spider-Man fanboy or the fact that underneath all of his douchebaggedness, he has a heart of gold and only needs to grow out of a phase that made Peter's life a living hell.

In a movie, I just can't see them tagging up on those qualities with the alotted time that Flash gets, despite it being probably an appropriate time to allot to that character, so they pretty much have to go with the type of scene I described above just to make end's meet with the character for the sake of having him in there. Nerd Flash by contrast, to me, was a neat way to utilize that time to establish something a little more for the times themselves and give his torment of Peter more of a wry edge, where he doesn't resent Peter for being his better so much as sees him as legitimate competition because he's just as smart but is seen as an asshole, unlike unreliable Peter Parker who still gets to have his seat on the Math Quiz after dumping it. That, I found, to be interesting.

But, you said your piece, I said mine. I don't want to take that away from anybody - everyone's got their Spider-Man, and I'll freely admit that despite thinking Homecoming is the best Spider-Man movie to date solely for nailing the main character as I see him (and I do stress as I see him, given that everyone sees him a different way), there's still alot of nostalgic residue left over from that first Raimi movie to keep me from ever saying that it's my favorite. The 2002 movie literally changed my life by introducing me to internet speculation and forums, and thus the RPGs themselves, while also helping to solidify my interest in superheroes other than just Batman. It's always gonna be king for that, just like the first Tim Burton Batman movie will probably be my favorite movie of all time until I die despite Batman Begins being objectively a better representation of the character.

CLOSED - Ultimate One Universe: Season One

@Inkarnate

@Retired

Man, you really are determined to just drive Gowi/Ink off of the edge of sanity.

CLOSED - Ultimate One Universe: Season One

And as far as the 'With Great Power...' mantra goes, I'm sure that it's coming. Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if Uncle Ben does appear at some point in the series via flashback and that some form of the origin is mentioned later on, now that they've gotten some distance from the Raimi films and Sony in general with their established version of Peter.

I can see why waiting for it again is annoying, but this is also a studio that has yet to have Cap yell 'Avengers Assemble!' after however many movies. And that's a line that I'm also pretty much convinced is being saved for Evans' final outing, whether that's Avengers 4 or something else.

CLOSED - Ultimate One Universe: Season One

I honestly did not mind and don't find any of what's being brought up about Homecoming to be annoying. I liked the cast alot and thought that the individual roles that the kids at Peter's school played served a nice purpose of establishing a very different status quo that ultimately serves to distance the MCU version of Peter Parker into it's own thing. It reminded me alot of when they shifted dynamics around for the Ultimate comics, but in a less annoying way than having Mary Jane take on the Gwen role while Gwen takes on the Mary Jane role, or something (Damn you, Bendis! You had me up till that!). I like doing new things with old characters in the service of a story, provided the story is enjoyable, and I thought Homecoming very much was.

Stuff like making Betty Brant an intentionally bad news prompter for the school was funny to me, and I don't really see how going with the traditional "She's Jonah's secretary that Peter may or may not have the hots for" alternative really would've make the movie better beyond the fact that it'd have made Jonah a factor. Ned being essentially Ganke worked for me because Peter being a lonesome character who doesn't have any friends while dealing with these issues as Spider-Man was something even the comics were quick to throw out after that initial learning curve period with the character, and I understood the reason to change it from Ganke to Ned Leeds due to the possible future of Miles Morales popping up. Flash was an enjoyable douchebag, and I didn't need to see a dude bigger than Peter stuffing him into a locker for thankless scenes that provide no real character development yet again after the movies tried it twice. I can actually remember stuff that the Flash in this movie did beyond act gruff and brainless for one scene to help established that, oh, Peter Parker has superpowers.

Now, that being said, the one thing I do agree was bullshit and should've been rethought immediately is the Michelle character. Every aspect of her personality screams a coming-of-age Mary Jane Watson who uses her snarky personality to deflect from a troubled homelife, or in the case of Michelle, loneliness from being a self-imposed social outcast. I was actually really looking forward to a scene where they actually get to the Homecoming dance itself and "Michelle" appears all glammed up, reflecting MJ's change into the consummate party girl that she becomes in college. That... scene didn't happen, and instead she was just called MJ near the end as a sort of apologetic wink for chickening out on that.

It was a really dumb decision to me because Zendaya, I thought, would make a great Mary Jane to Holland's Peter. She basically had everything there except for the aforementioned glamming up and the red tint to her hair, both of which she could have still acquired in sequels if she'd just been allowed to be named Mary Jane. As it stands, I'll wait to see if Far From Home makes any headway in making up for that, but it's kind of going in on shaky ground due to that hesitation to just call her that. And I think it stems moreso from the culture of studios believing that if a character's appearance is spoiled, however major or minor, that it ruins the movie for the audience. I guarantee that in the early 2000's, Homecoming would have never minced words about her totally being Mary Jane Watson from the first press release onward.

That, or it's a dumb Sony thing. Which I can actually see, come to think of it. They probably want to make Mary Jane Watson the star of the next phase of their cinematic universe.

As Carnage.

CLOSED - Ultimate One Universe: Season One

Fredile could play literally all of the male Robins up to Damian. And even with Damian, there's the grown-up Batman #666 version.

CLOSED - Ultimate One Universe: Season One

Okay, with voice actors, it's a bit different. There are voice actors that fit particular eras of characters better than most. For example, yean, duh. Conroy is the be-all end-all voice of Batman. He's who I hear whenever I read the comics, his voice is what I draw on to write Bruce's dialogue, both inner and outer.

However. I don't particularly hear his voice when reading comics of an older era. The 70's and every era before that have their own Batman that isn't Conroy, for me. So with that said...

1939's Batman - Jeremy Sisto
1940's Batman - Gary Owens
1950's Batman - Diedrich Bader
1960's Batman - Adam West (he voiced Batman several times too)
1970's Batman - Bruce Greenwood
1980's Batman, onward - Kevin Conroy
Possible Future Batman - Michael Ironside

Shout-outs to Roger Craig Smith, Will Fredile, Olan Soule, and Peter Weller for being great in their own right. If I had to choose a voice that wasn't Conroy for UOU Batman specifically, I'd actually use either Smith or Fredile. I actually wouldn't mind Fredile playing Batman proper, given his Terry McGinnis is essentially a Year One era Batman mixed with Dick Grayson.

CLOSED - Ultimate One Universe: Season One

Also, this scene is pretty much the perfect Murdock/Fisk scene to me.

CLOSED - Ultimate One Universe: Season One

Duncan was fine in the role, but he never really sold it for me. He seemed to be going for something of a version of Fisk with artistic license, which is fine, but I think the Netflix version did that aswell and captured a version much closer to the comics in the process. Pretty much every character except for Bullseye has been done better on the show, I think. Daredevil, Elektra, Foggy, Karen Page, Urich, and Westley, certainly.

I'm curious to see if Season 3 brings in a better Bullseye than Farrell. Or at least a version that feels like Bullseye, because as over the top as Farrell was, he at least kinda fit the manic insanity of that character.