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[OOC] World in Revolution: 1861 Page 173

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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by null123
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Ampharos said
I don't complain about alliances in this game for the same reason I don't complain about how they work in Victoria 2. I don't really care about being super accurate, and it's fairly logical for people to align with people who they have similar interests regardless of whether or not there's bad history between the two states that they may or may not know about.This is somewhat unrealistic, sure but not nuclear weapons unrealistic. Plus, Outcast knew about this alliance in advance, as long as he gives the okay, I don't care. I'm just in it to play a game.


^
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ampharos
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The Nexerus said
It's possible to both tolerate something and express concerns about it simultaneously.

I think what you do is somewhat more than "expressing concerns" about something.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Byrd Man
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AegonVI said
@Byrd, you never took entire control of the Mississippi...


I took control of two of the southern critical spots, Memphis and Vicksburg, on the river as well as blockaded New Orleans. There's abut a 250 mile chunk of river between Memphis and Vicksburg while the Mississippi itself is over two thousand miles. Not complete control, but close to it.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Giant
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Sorry, Byrd, my boys didn't wreck shite.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by So Boerd
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NarcolepticSailor said
Are we ignoring the fact that the Taiping Rebellion had just ended as well and that the people of China probably aren't exactly keen on angering a power which not only have access to far better technology than they do in a military conflict, but can very easily dispatch a relatively small force to hold them back with. Even in a hypothetical situation where the Chinese/Japanese did win, they'd have suffered so many multiple losses in the process of doing so in an already unstable nation.


Taiping, 2nd Opium, why not have another societally shattering war?

Better yet, let's invade terrain where we cannot logistically support our large numbers, thus depriving us of our only advantage!

I don't mean to mock, but I feel OOC weighed much more than IC in this call.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by bigscreech
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So Boerd said
Taiping, 2nd Opium, why not have another societally shattering war?Better yet, let's invade terrain where we cannot logistically support our large numbers, thus depriving us of our only advantage!


Well if the war goes well this could be very beneficial for China and Japan's governments especially if it's over a European power. Also it would give the Russian bear a war on two fronts which would greatly prevent the steam role that was going to take place in Central Europe. This war needs a quick victory on the western front or that naval blockade will eventually starve out the rest of coalition if this becomes an extended war of attrition.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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bigscreech said Also it would give the Russian bear a war on two fronts which would greatly prevent the steam role that was going to take place in Central Europe.


So it was Kho's doing.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Giant
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The Nexerus said
So it was Kho's doing.




See y'all in a bit.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ampharos
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So Boerd said I feel OOC weighed much more than IC in this call.

From the standpoint of somebody who is playing China and just looking at the states he was given, it's a sensible decision. This is the perfect opportunity for him to seize back any territory that Russia has taken from him and to expel him from China. With Russia busy in Europe and the Caucasus and partially blockaded, it's the best opportunity China is going to get to win a war against him. On top of that, Russian infrastructure is severely lacking, and actually getting armies all the way to the other side of the continent will prove even more difficult than China marching its armies northward.

This is opportunism more than anything, I think. China is risking a lot, yeah, but it also has a lot to gain. If it wins, the Emperor would probably win some major support for his reforms at home and get a lot of public support from successfully beating back a European power.

The Nexerus said
So it was Kho's doing.

Yeah, Kho is the devil. How dare he.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by So Boerd
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Asia, I don't mean to point out a problem without putting forward a solution, so how about this?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aksai_Chin

~Prestige: The British just gave you a serious drubbing in an actual war and signed Constantinople.
~Chance of easy diplomatic victory: There is no strategic importance and no ethnic British.
~Chance of easy military victory: No Indian conscripts, British have to ship every soldier and cannot blockade you. All for some patch of barren land.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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Ampharos said This is opportunism more than anything


Obviously.

China has a reason to want war with Russia. With the Taiping rebellion having magically ended several years early, they have the physical capacity for such a war as well. I don't have a problem with China hungrily eyeing eastern Russia, I have a problem with China not eyeing Japan's possessions in the west just as hungrily. The China-Japan alliance is purely a machination of OOC negotiations; the two nation's governments and citizens hold each other in contempt, and any amount of warmness between them (much less a full fledged alliance) is unrealistic. Should they be as hostile towards each other as they would be if this were during or after the SIno-Japanese wars? Obviously not, but they definitely shouldn't be warm neighbours.

As So Boerd has pointed out, China has just as much to gain from siding with Russia as against them. We're only a few years after the Second Opium War, and now China is joining with the French and British in a large-scale armed conflict? Chinese participation in the War of the Eighth Coalition is grounds for an early Boxer Rebellion.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ampharos
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The Qing is a Manchu dynasty. You'd think they'd want Outer Manchuria back much more than some uninhabited parts of Tibet that Britain could just as easily give them anyway.

Also, China has given no indication that it's joining Britain and France as much as it's becoming a co-belligerent the same way that the United States and France simultaneously fought Britain in 1812.

Chinese participation in The War of the Alliance With a Silly Name isn't as grand as you seem to be making it. China isn't selling its soul to Britain or France.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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Ampharos said China isn't selling its soul to Britain or France.


Correct. It already sold its soul in the Opium Wars. Now it's selling several hundred thousand of its limbs.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by So Boerd
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that Britain could just as easily give them anyway.


You mean a concession from the most powerful nation in the world without losing a drop of blood?

Gee, who would want that
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Giant
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So Boerd said
You mean a concession from the most powerful nation in the world without losing a drop of blood? Gee, who would want


Well, the French did it.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by salamimike
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Giant said
Well, the French did it.




I did it for peace in Europe...
That went well..
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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solamelike said
I did it for peace in Europe...That went well..


The best thing you could've done to ensure peace in Europe was remain neutral in the war and hand over Leopold.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by salamimike
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The Nexerus said
The best thing you could've done to ensure peace in Europe was remain neutral in the war and hand over Leopold.


But am I correct in assuming France does not want Prussia to grow?
So wouldn't France take the opportunity to at least try and slow down Prussia being even more powerful?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by So Boerd
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solamelike said
But am I correct in assuming France does not want Prussia to grow?So wouldn't France take the opportunity to at least and slow down Prussia being even more powerful?


The mind of Napoleon III is a strange one IRL.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by So Boerd
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Assuming a perfectly rational France, you wouldn't want either Austria nor Prussia strengthened. A balance of power Austria threatened by DOWing me.
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