In process of making a character sheet for Lucas Fox.

OK, I'm headbutting a brick wall.

I'll come up with something eventually, but don't feel you have to wait for me.

Are original characters allowed? If not I might try and do Dick Grayson

just wondering, could I mix together two DC heroes to create a quasi-new hero?

The "Don't ask, don't tell" law was abolished circa three or four and a half years ago, so unless Kate either joined up before she was even finished in high-school, whatever sexist, homophobic piece of shit wanted to discharge her for it would get into deep shit from the military chain of command for it, and even if they managed to discharge Kate on phantom charges, considering she's a Kane, wouldn't they have lawyers all over that situation in a hot minute?

Also how can she be in the closet if she got discharged for being homosexual? Does she just not talk about? Did nobody bother to look in to why she was discharged?

I was just following the comic story. Maybe in this universe don't ask don't tell is still in effect. And she probably lied about the reason she was discharged. I mean, I guess people can find out, but she'll just claim its a misunderstanding ("We're just friends! Its normal for friends to bump butts and make out!"). Honestly, I just wanted to write a coming out story.

OK, I'm headbutting a brick wall.

I'll come up with something eventually, but don't feel you have to wait for me.

If you need any idea's don't hesitate to message me :)

Are original characters allowed? If not I might try and do Dick Grayson

Original characters are allowed as long as they fit into the universe as per the intro post.

just wondering, could I mix together two DC heroes to create a quasi-new hero?

That depends on the idea, message me and we'll talk.

I've had a concept of Oracle, where Barbara Gordon had never become Batgirl, only helped in her creation, having been injured by joker before she was able to realize her goal, though it was more of an attempt to mess with the Commissioner, and less of The Killing Joke. Essentially she skipped the batgirl stage and used her intellegence and computer skills to become Oracle, though managed to remain anonymous even from Batman at first, She could be anywhere from teens to 30s depending on where she would fit in the timeline. I thought I would mention the concept before posting a CS, and of course leave some room for imput. If it wouldn't be too out of line with the story, I can post a CS later.

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I was just following the comic story. Maybe in this universe don't ask don't tell is still in effect. And she probably lied about the reason she was discharged. I mean, I guess people can find out, but she'll just claim its a misunderstanding ("We're just friends! Its normal for friends to bump butts and make out!"). Honestly, I just wanted to write a coming out story.

The (New 52) version still follows the real world chronological order of events and law changes regarding that, Kate was at West Point in the current version before 2011, and if you use her older version (post-crisis) that came out before that repeal was in effect so it worked in the confines of that. So "going by the comic origin" your Kate would be older given the timeline but to your own testament you wanted to play a younger version; why not swap DADT with post-traumatic stress disorder or some other discharge? Surprised I also missed this in your sheet before as we all intend to write with each other so we need to make sure everything is in order, yeah? =)

I've had a concept of Oracle, where Barbara Gordon had never become Batgirl, only helped in her creation, having been injured by joker before she was able to realize her goal, though it was more of an attempt to mess with the Commissioner, and less of The Killing Joke. Essentially she skipped the batgirl stage and used her intellegence and computer skills to become Oracle, though managed to remain anonymous even from Batman at first, She could be anywhere from teens to 30s depending on where she would fit in the timeline. I thought I would mention the concept before posting a CS, and of course leave some room for imput. If it wouldn't be too out of line with the story, I can post a CS later.

So it's exactly like Killing Joke, the premise of that attack in Alan Moore's graphic novel was to "mess" with Gordon because he had not known Barbara was Batgirl. Of course this is my memory of the comic, and it's been years (and I have a notorious love/hate relationship) with it. Assuming the GM edits the timeline to suit your origin/ideas, I think it could work fairly okay. I think the only thing is Barbara probably would still be in the 25-30 range as having Barbara be 16 with Tim Drake older would just feel wrong to me.

My two cents.

So it's exactly like Killing Joke, the premise of that attack in Alan Moore's graphic novel was to "mess" with Gordon because he had not known Barbara was Batgirl. Of course this is my memory of the comic, and it's been years (and I have a notorious love/hate relationship) with it. Assuming the GM edits the timeline to suit your origin/ideas, I think it could work fairly okay. I think the only thing is Barbara probably would still be in the 25-30 range as having Barbara be 16 with Tim Drake older would just feel wrong to me.

My two cents.

true, but what I meant is that it was more of an unintentional, yet extremely effective side effect of his plan, as opposed to blatantly shooting her in the back

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true, but what I meant is that it was more of an unintentional, yet extremely effective side effect of his plan, as opposed to blatantly shooting her in the back

The implied things he did that the comic said he probably did is much more unnerving and devastating then his gunshot, to me anyway. Also the cut content is so delicious morbid and terrifying.

http://www.hitfix.com/news/original-killing-joke-art-depicts-more-graphic-torture-scene

I've had a concept of Oracle, where Barbara Gordon had never become Batgirl, only helped in her creation, having been injured by joker before she was able to realize her goal, though it was more of an attempt to mess with the Commissioner, and less of The Killing Joke. Essentially she skipped the batgirl stage and used her intellegence and computer skills to become Oracle, though managed to remain anonymous even from Batman at first, She could be anywhere from teens to 30s depending on where she would fit in the timeline. I thought I would mention the concept before posting a CS, and of course leave some room for imput. If it wouldn't be too out of line with the story, I can post a CS later.

This is an interesting idea. Whip up a CS for me and we'll talk. I'm more than happy to amend the timeline to accommodate for characters

I see that everyone with accepted characters posted a quote from their character unlike me. I guess i'll do the same thing. Anyway i'll post my character in the characters section right away, now that he's been accepted.

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The (New 52) version still follows the real world chronological order of events and law changes regarding that, Kate was at West Point in the current version before 2011, and if you use her older version (post-crisis) that came out before that repeal was in effect so it worked in the confines of that. So "going by the comic origin" your Kate would be older given the timeline but to your own testament you wanted to play a younger version; why not swap DADT with post-traumatic stress disorder or some other discharge? Surprised I also missed this in your sheet before as we all intend to write with each other so we need to make sure everything is in order, yeah? =)

We're not really following comic universe, this RP is an alternate universe (see the OP). So I'm taking liberties with the world. Having Kate discharged under other circumstances just won't do. She needs to be wronged because its a major motivation for her putting on the mask. And using DADT highlights discrimination of her sexuality, which is a big part of her story.

So, unless there are objections, I'm gonna say in this universe a younger Kate was discharged because of don't ask don't tell.

Actually, forget it. I don't want to make people burden themselves with handholding me through something I really don't understand well enough. >.<

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We're not really following comic universe, this RP is an alternate universe (see the OP). So I'm taking liberties with the world. Having Kate discharged under other circumstances just won't do. She needs to be wronged because its a major motivation for her putting on the mask. And using DADT highlights discrimination of her sexuality, which is a big part of her story.

So, unless there are objections, I'm gonna say in this universe a younger Kate was discharged because of don't ask don't tell.

I have objections to it, but for reasons to intend to offend or argue with you as I've liked your posts and diction in the previous RP well enough. I don't know about the rest (or even the GM's stance on it) but I'm not kosher with real world laws that are basically gone being redacted just for the sake of it. If everyone is fine with it, I will deal and not care too much but I just thought I should voice my opinion on that.

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I have objections to it, but for reasons to intend to offend or argue with you as I've liked your posts and diction in the previous RP well enough. I don't know about the rest (or even the GM's stance on it) but I'm not kosher with real world laws that are basically gone being redacted just for the sake of it. If everyone is fine with it, I will deal and not care too much but I just thought I should voice my opinion on that.

First off, I'm not just changing laws just because I feel like it. I'm doing it for the sake of Batwoman's story. I wouldn't just make major changes if it wasn't for the sake of story telling.

And if you have a good reason for your objections, please voice it so we can work out a solution. Right now I don't see how this change to the universe negatively affects the story, or how it interferes with anyone else's characters or story. And honestly, once the RP starts, I doubt anyone will even notice it.

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First off, I'm not just changing laws just because I feel like it. I'm doing it for the sake of Batwoman's story. I wouldn't just make major changes if it wasn't for the sake of story telling.

And if you have a good reason for your objections, please voice it so we can work out a solution. Right now I don't see how this change to the universe negatively affects the story, or how it interferes with anyone else's characters or story. And honestly, once the RP starts, I doubt anyone will even notice it.

From my corner, and this is me being respectful about it; you are doing it for the sake of it, the sake of your storytelling. It is completely subjective if it's a necessary or quality change. I think it's superfluous. My reasoning behind why I don't really like it is mostly because it seems like a change that isn't a particular good one, I like comic books (even the ones I RP in) to reflect off the world and their politics which means laws that happen in my reality still happen in my fiction to have a degree of social awareness and commentary alongside a good story about fight against the thralls of criminal corruption. I don't mean to stray us into an argument because I respect your reason to do so even if I don't agree with it.

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From my corner, and this is me being respectful about it; you are doing it for the sake of it, the sake of your storytelling. It is completely subjective if it's a necessary or quality change. I think it's superfluous. My reasoning behind why I don't really like it is mostly because it seems like a change that isn't a particular good one, I like comic books (even the ones I RP in) to reflect off the world and their politics which means laws that happen in my reality still happen in my fiction to have a degree of social awareness and commentary alongside a good story about fight against the thralls of criminal corruption. I don't mean to stray us into an argument because I respect your reason to do so even if I don't agree with it.

Let me rephrase: I'm not making changes for no reason. Its not like I just woke up one day and thought "what laws can I put back into this universe?". The reason I want to make this change is because of the following:

Batwoman is a soldier, and a large part of her motivation is the inability to serve in the military. Using don't ask don't tell kills two birds with one stone, since it also addresses her sexuality. Essentially, she can't do what she wants because of who she is. This is one of the huge challenges she faces and must overcome as a character.

If I used PTSD as the reason she was discharged (as you suggested), it wouldn't be the same. Her discharge would be justified, and she won't face the same discriminatory hurdle.

It sounds like the reason you object to this change is because of principal, rather than a specific issue that would detriment this RP or anyone's character. So I fail to see how, in a practical sense, this change would effect you or your character. Think of it this way: Are you really going to notice this change at all once we get started?

I don't want to be stubborn or a jerk, so if it really bothers you that much I'd gladly listen to any solutions or alternatives.

It sounds like the reason you object to this change is because of principal, rather than a specific issue that would detriment this RP or anyone's character. So I fail to see how, in a practical sense, this change would effect you or your character. Think of it this way: Are you really going to notice this change at all once we get started?

Yeah, I know it might sound weird (or not, we're all collaborative writers here) but I take role-playing too seriously. I put research and stock into a lot of my characterizations, and try to follow themes as well as tone properly whilst becoming a greater writer than I was beforehand. But you are completely right that this is more principle than anything else, it is likely we won't notice or it won't come up again in this RP and it won't really matter in the long run or even effect Carrie Kelley whom probably would have a remark at best on it.

Now for ideas on your character so we don't have me continuing to split hairs?

What I know is you want to play a younger Kate Kane, but with her at 21 in 2014/2015 she would've been 18 in the Armed Forces (training) around 2011 or so when the repeal was in full effect. My biggest alternative of suggestion is it came out when she was in Academy at West Point (like in one of her origins in the comics) and got shipped back to Gotham when she stood by her sexuality and her code of honor. It keeps what you want to do with your character, but means she got thrown out of the military sooner which means she had a few years to... "not find herself".

I don't want to be criticizing asshole, either, and I know I might be doing that.