@Wintergrey@Fabricant451 well, also, there's impressive cinematography, stunning locations, great acting, and it's own innovative version since it's way way ahead of the books now. I like how it's becoming it's own. Book readers will always be like rawr. But GOT, the show, is impressive for what it's worth.
_{film nerd here}

My favorite episodes are the Massacre at Hardhome and the Battle of Castle Black. Literally some of the best shots I've ever seen are in those episodes like an incredible long shot where the staging and blocking had to be on point.

The Walk of Atonement made me really feel for Cersei.

There's so much good to the show.

_{I'm done now...}

@Altered Tundra I don't know what television we're watching but that's not the things I enjoy about television at alllllll.

What I was getting at is I don't like things in the fantasy genre. Like at all. I'm not doubting it's probably a fine show. I just don't want to watch it, not because it's a fine show but because it just doesn't interest me on any level whatsoever. Abs do nothing for me and I've already seen the albums that are just the ladies and their topless scenes because I'm a not so secret pervy lady.

I've got this habit of just not watching television that people say I have to watch. Like I still haven't watched Breaking Bad because I'm that person that says "no thanks" when people keep telling me to watch something.

Also

Oddly enough, I call myself shipper trash but I have like only three ships I'm actually invested in beyond "Oh, that'd be cute!"

<Snipped quote by Apokalipse>

So was The Office! D;

And Parks and Rec!

And Community!

And all three of these have the same thing in common. They peaked in the second and third seasons and then went bad!

@Wintergrey@Fabricant451 well, also, there's impressive cinematography, stunning locations, great acting

And yet I'll never witness any of that because the first few episodes bored me to bloody tears. :/

<Snipped quote by Apokalipse>

*whispers* Wasn't friends a character-driven show?

So was The Office! D;

And Parks and Rec!

And Community!

These are sitcoms. they have no plot at all. you could literally pick a random episode, watch it, and not be lost at all. so it totally doesn't count.

Friends bores me, also, so I never watched it. The Office is eh. I've only seen two episodes of Parks and Rec because I got bored 'cause nothing was really happening. And Community I watched until Grover left. Then i said fuck you guys i'm out.

<Snipped quote by HalfOfLancelot>

And Community I watched until Grover left. Then i said fuck you guys i'm out.

Yeah, so did the show's humor.

@Fabricant451 Yeah. Fantasy isn't for everyone. I'll give you that. And like most shows, it gets better later on in the season. Especially when people die. Things are always better in stories when death is a driving element for character progression.

Tbh, if I felt so inclined to, I'd literally search for the moments that really made me flip my film nerd shit out. Not to convert you, but so I could show you why I appreciate the scene/show. Like this one particular long shot in a battle scene. I was watching the show with my friends and I kinda just geeked out afterwards.

The show really shines when shit gets real.

I'm staying with the classics: CSI (I love all of them), Law and Order (love all of them as well), and some new ones like Hemlock Grove and Bates Motel. <3

@Dirty Pretty Lies I love Law & Order as well :3

@Fabricant451 Things are always better in stories when death is a driving element for character progression.

See I don't necessarily agree with this. Death is a hard thing to do properly when it comes to story telling and even more so in an episodic medium like television and most of the time the death isn't so much for character progression or drama but for shock value and buzzwords over the water cooler. Loathe as I am to bring up the show again but Lost is a perfect example of fucking up death. Locke's death did not accomplish anything other than tank the show's one actually great character for a shocking cliffhanger that ultimately led to nothing. Locke was dead but Terry O'Quinn was still around because who fucking cares.

It always seems like the easy route to go, killing off a character, and rarely have I been "Oh, this death serves the plot/characters well". Death in a television show is the punchline of an unfunny joke. It used to be a novel thing. Now it's like the producers and writers are taunting you. Yes, having a show where no one is safe can do wonders for dramatic tension but still at the end of the day you know that the only characters that benefit from death are the ones that don't die because they can cry for a scene and submit it for an Emmy.

Though I suppose any show ever made can do death better than fucking The L Word. Oh my GOD what a disaster.

@Altered Tundra I don't know what television we're watching but that's not the things I enjoy about television at alllllll.

What I was getting at is I don't like things in the fantasy genre. Like at all. I'm not doubting it's probably a fine show. I just don't want to watch it, not because it's a fine show but because it just doesn't interest me on any level whatsoever. Abs do nothing for me and I've already seen the albums that are just the ladies and their topless scenes because I'm a not so secret pervy lady.

I've got this habit of just not watching television that people say I have to watch. Like I still haven't watched Breaking Bad because I'm that person that says "no thanks" when people keep telling me to watch something.

I'm watching my television. What television are you watching?

I totes PMed you Fabric. Talking about GOT in a more analysis form as a war story is not a public chat friendly thing xD

Sorry guys for massive OOC posts. Film geeks go ham on their observations and opinions xD

@Fabricant451 Well I never said that was right either. Haven't watched Lost so can't say.

@Apokalipse I think both type of shows can do shock value type of stuff and both can be bad. Sometimes plot driven shows just have shitty plots. I just tend to dislike plot driven because when they kill a character off they completely change who the character is just so they can achieve the end goal of causing the actions and events that get the character killed. I'm not saying you can't ever kill a character, just make sure that it makes sense with what's likely to happen and what the character would do.

A really well character driven show is Gravity Falls. Like if anyone's seen it, you can clearly tell when something is happening to move the plot along because it's so OOC. Well then they're deriving from the genuine character and that's writing's fault not the fact that it's a character-driven show. If shows want to sell out, that's on production, not the fact that characters are being developed. I'm not exactly sure if those are completely character driven shows but maybe they just have a higher amount of popular shows that sell out. But that doesn't make character-driven shows insufficient. You want to know a bad plot-driven show? Walking. Dead. It's fucking trash.

I can't say anything about Clarke but I hate the CW for how they portray LGBT characters. Why are the only females that like other females both have to be hot and make out? Why can't there be a gay character that's well developed and not only used for comic relief? So even if their intentions are honest, I'm still skeptical about why they made Clarke with Lexa.

@HalfOfLancelot Okay yeah but those are all comedies which focus on the comedy more than anything so it's not necessary to have a plot. But hey, don't drag on the Office. That was an amazing show. I know someone here who will FIGHT you for thinking otherwise.

Oh no, I'm not like a rage demon of hate if you like a NOTP. I'll judge you a little since people who tend to like that ship are similar and try to observe and see if you have those traits but I'm totally cool with it being your OTP. I just want to debate it and see why you like it. Yeah, I'm not for that either but at the same time I'm not for anti-hetero shipping either.

@Fabricant451 Maybe since fiction isn't really your thing, you tend to be more big picture and that's why you prefer plot-driven, because you rarely care for an individual character's story.

@lovely complex Usually for me if death is your main selling point and what you're trying to conform around in creating the show, I won't like it. It says to me that you're not a good enough writer to come up with something new and creative and that will affect the characters aside from pain. Because everything basically becomes pointless and you're just as bad as action movies that are just explosions and one liners (Michael Bay movies, a lot of popular superhero movies, etc).

@Fabricant451 Okay but after only watching the first season, the L Word's just plain trash.

@reiko Well keep in mind George R.R. Martin's world is medievalesque where ppl die everyday. There's always tension because anyone can die. Plus. GOT in general is a war zone. Going into it from the get go, one should expect dark topics to insue.

But that's not why I watch the show. It's incredibly well done.

I agree with all of you that death needs intention, and I do believe that in Game of Thrones, death does have it's reasons because it's for characters' advantage or disadvantage. Any move someone can make can lead to their demise.

I don't think the critique should be directed to the story. The critique should be directed to the world of GOT. It's dark fantasy meets medieval.

Death can be done right. Of course, GOT risks using death too much which desensitizes their audience but that doesn't make it a bad show.

Added: fixed typos xD on my phone

Jesus guys XD. Okay so i actually need help. Should Tis be the Green Leader? Cause she seems to fit perfectly, and only, in green. At the same time I already have two greenies so... Let me know what you think

@lovely complex I haven't watched or read the series (but want to) so I can't say if they've done a good job executing death. I'm not saying a show that is death driven can't be good, I just don't think they tend to be...

@Wintergrey I mean, she'd be one interesting leader. xD if you are compelled to be the leader, I say do it.

Also this is kinda nice. I like talking to all of you. You guys get really descriptive about your opinions which leads to awesome discussion.

Granted I'm typing rlly fast on my phone, making a lot of typos haha

I totes PMed you Fabric. Talking about GOT in a more analysis form as a war story is not a public chat friendly thing xD

Just so you know, any attempts to analyse GoT to me will be met with me going "All I know from that show is it made people like Peter Dinklage because these plebs never watched The Station Agent which is fantastic"

But also yes, time to flex that useless film studies degree. Flexin' it all.

@Altered Tundra I don't actually watch television on a television. My television these days is 90 percent Netflix, five percent DramaFever/KSHOW and five percent incriminating.

@reiko oh absolutely! Death is a dangerous story element that can be a hit or miss but can be really impactful. I feel like Game of Thrones in particular is one of those stories that make people analyze it because of how visual their methaphors get.

Ultimately the overarching story is about war, and war at least in terms of film, the visuals have to be about assorting one's dominance and the terrible nature of humanity.

Either way, I'm not trying to convert anyone xD. I'm just a filmmaker whose actually used death in one of her short films so I've taken a lot of time to understand the elements in using death. It's not easy xD

@Fabricant451 Peter Dinklage was my life before GOT made him cool but omg, he's like the best character. They couldn't have cast Tyrion with anyone else.