@VitaVitaAR Morgiana is all about deception, an isn't a typical Assassin. It's not an easy NP to pull off at all, but it's still possible. I haven't detailed it yet, but the espionage skill pretty much hides her intentions and always makes others feel like she is being honest and genuine, which will certainly help.

Plus I do plan to give her another NP that ties into boiling oil. There's many Servants with hard to pull off NP's.

The only Servant with such an ineffefctive NP is Angra Mainyu. And Verg Avesta still has potential uses. This... is pretty much less effective than just hitting a Master with a nearby chair. It's not hard to pull off, it's utterly dependant on the target being stupid.

@Cojemo: I still feel like it should be a bit more, say... maybe the dance has a compulsion effect that makes you watch it unless you have good enough MR or willpower-related skills? Or maybe the dance and the attack are a single effect, so if you look while she's dancing a curse is inflicted that opens a hole in your chest and kills you?

I'd try and use other conditional kill NPs as a model, like Maria the Ripper for example.

@Cojemo

Why not make the dance NP into an ability that prevents enemies from seeing her as 'hostile' even if shes fighting someone? That way PC won't drop during the fight, and it'll be really hard to attack her or defend against her. It would really mess with skills like eye of the mind or instinct because it'd kind of negate them. An excellent surprise attack ability however with just that I feel it isn't wholly complete so I think you should take that idea and run with it some.

Also, you should use Melt's Crime Ballet as an inspiration. Perhaps incorporate a similar dancing based ability into your sheet as a personal skill.

Seems like Black Zerker is open, so I'll take that slot, if that's kay with y'all?

@ERode: Fine with me!

Edit: Shoot, sorry, I lost track. Black Berserker is taken.

@Cojemo: I still feel like it should be a bit more, say... maybe the dance has a compulsion effect that makes you watch it unless you have good enough MR or willpower-related skills? Or maybe the dance and the attack are a single effect, so if you look while she's dancing a curse is inflicted that opens a hole in your chest and kills you?

I'd try and use other conditional kill NPs as a model, like Maria the Ripper for example.

That's fair. The idea behind it was basically she'd try to befriend an enemy and make them trust her, and she'd perform the dance as a form of respect and trust. Of course, I did kind of think I made it a bit too weak so I'll revise it.

@Cojemo

Basically, my idea for the NP would be to make it kind of like an evolved form of Knight Tactics where you invite check failures by viewing her dance, which you can then exploit. It also opens up the enemy to 'critical hits'/Counters and such. Think of it as a better version of Knight Tactics but focused around dancing and used constantly.

Knight Tactics really messed up Saber in Fate/Zero, as an aside, so it's a really potent ability.

Mental interference is very easy to resist so having that as your exclusive noble phantasm would be very weak, especially in a war with so many top-servants.

... there's nothing in Fate/Zero by the name of Knight Tactics. That was only added in to Grand Order so Diarmuid had the necessary three skills, the entire concept of exploiting weaknesses is subsumed in EotM, and can only barely bridge the gap between Diarmuid and Saber--and he's hardly a pushover. It's not going to help an Assassin.

Could you please stop with giving unsolicited advice? It's likely to cause confusion and something that's less suitable.

@VitaVitaAR Aha, are there any servant slots left then?

For the moment, it doesn't seem like there is, sorry.

Mm, probs a good idea to edit that zeroth post then, or link the spreadsheet there.

@ERode: Yeah I'll get on that when I'm done eating. If something opens up I'll send you a PM.

@Raineh Daze

... there's nothing in Fate/Zero by the name of Knight Tactics. That was only added in to Grand Order so Diarmuid had the necessary three skills, the entire concept of exploiting weaknesses is subsumed in EotM, and can only barely bridge the gap between Diarmuid and Saber--and he's hardly a pushover. It's not going to help an Assassin.

I think you're missing my point like with the 'B- PC' stuff, so I grabbed some quotes to try and explain it. It'd be hard to catch if you watched anime only, which is a possibility. I was just using Knight Tactics as an example and you seem to be stuck on it.

Calmly studying the opponent's light footwork, Saber measured the timing of her strike. Lancer too was probably estimating the speed of her charge with the density of prana she put in her body. But she still has one more secret ready for that...

By a little, just by a little, Lancer's movement weakens.

The asphalt torn up into gravels created many obstacles for a good foothold. Lancer's movement stagnates a little when he puts strength into his legs.

Saber didn't miss it.

Saber's sixth sense can theoretically surpass thought for a natural talent for battle decision, but it didn't predict her blunder.

The idea is that instinct is only valid if Saber herself isn't the one messing up. It still doesn't full 'counter' instinct even if that's the case, but it can certainly help to pull off an ambush(Something normally impossible, though there are ways like for example Snake vs Saber)

Also, instinct is very weak to things you can't 'Understand', such as Snake-style. The idea for the dance Noble Phantasm was that it invites check failures in the actual dance moves, and that it's difficult for her opponent to 'understand' what she is doing. In other words, thematically it works a lot like the Snake fight combined with the Diarmuid fight- both things that actually work quite well against something like 'Instinct' or 'Eye of the Mind'.

Naturally of course someone with high ranked instinct can deal with both, as Saber has, but it still definitely gives you a first time ambush advantage on an enemy. It's an excellent way for an Assassin to score kills, and under the right conditions, even defeat Servants they normally couldn't with team support- Like True Assassin and the Shadow.

Keep in mind I'm only posting this since I don't think we've reached a very good understanding on what I've said so far, so I wanted to clear it up. I'll keep my mouth shut on further sheets and anymore discussion regarding instinct because you asked. I'll only respond to someone if they ask for advice over the OOC or via PMs. I don't like cluttering the OOC anyway.

@Red Alice

Oh, uh... sorry if I'm interrupting your conversation, but I was wondering what sort of Caster you were considering? EMIYA is a very... unique Servant, so I'm trying to see what all my cards are, if that's fine? Specifically, anything I can take advantage of, like a good Item Creation, or....?

I hope you don't mind me asking...

@Red Alice

Oh, uh... sorry if I'm interrupting your conversation, but I was wondering what sort of Caster you were considering? EMIYA is a very... unique Servant, so I'm trying to see what all my cards are, if that's fine? Specifically, anything I can take advantage of, like a good Item Creation, or....?

I hope you don't mind me asking...

Well I've been somewhat holding out for the discord for real strategist talk but we can probably go over general details since EMIYA is a canon, I think. Eitherway it'll just be talking about my (intended and not yet accepted so take it all with a very big grain of salt) character concept.

Currently I'm going for Gudrun simply because it may be really awkward for me to be on Red as Morgan. She would've been great on Black, though. Still I do enjoy being on Red since I'll be able to watch the Iskander-Arturia banter going on.

Item creation wise that benefits our team a lot, since that's not really Morgans big focus but Gudrun's legend is her making love potions(and way more high tier stuff than that) and owning and controlling Fafnir's horde. However I likely won't have any swords or weapons for you to project sadly.

Did you have any ideas for what you'd want from Item Creation? May want to send that over PM, though.

@Raineh Daze
<Snipped quote>

I think you're missing my point like with the 'B- PC' stuff, so I grabbed some quotes to try and explain it. It'd be hard to catch if you watched anime only, which is a possibility. I was just using Knight Tactics as an example and you seem to be stuck on it.

<Snipped quote>

The idea is that instinct is only valid if Saber herself isn't the one messing up. It still doesn't full 'counter' instinct even if that's the case, but it can certainly help to pull off an ambush(Something normally impossible, though there are ways like for example Snake vs Saber)

Also, instinct is very weak to things you can't 'Understand', such as Snake-style. The idea for the dance Noble Phantasm was that it invites check failures in the actual dance moves, and that it's difficult for her opponent to 'understand' what she is doing. In other words, thematically it works a lot like the Snake fight combined with the Diarmuid fight- both things that actually work quite well against something like 'Instinct' or 'Eye of the Mind'.

Naturally of course someone with high ranked instinct can deal with both, as Saber has, but it still definitely gives you a first time ambush advantage on an enemy. It's an excellent way for an Assassin to score kills, and under the right conditions, even defeat Servants they normally couldn't with team support- Like True Assassin and the Shadow.

Keep in mind I'm only posting this since I don't think we've reached a very good understanding on what I've said so far, so I wanted to clear it up. I'll keep my mouth shut on further sheets and anymore discussion regarding instinct because you asked. I'll only respond to someone if they ask for advice over the OOC or via PMs. I don't like cluttering the OOC anyway.

You are not right, not at all. Diarmuid has(and always had) only two canon skills outside of GO (where he needs Knight Tactics to fill his 3rd skill slot). You should never use GO-based retcon material outside of GO because the circumstances of that story (especially the Servants being summoned using the FATE system which allows for extra skills, ascensions, etc) aren't easy to be replicated outside of there.

As a proof, here is his original character sheet, that comes with Fate/Zero's original release:





PS: The Skills are only EotM(True) and Love Spot, by the way.

As a note, I'll be opening the Discord once all Servants are in a completed state.

@Red Alice

Gudrun seems scarier as an Assassin... oh, unless you're doing her Norse variant? Oh, the part about not being able to give me any swords to project is a shame, but it's not like it's a lost cause! EMIYA has a couple of things like mystic codes and even a Holy Shroud, so I'm sure he'll be able to adapt to what's given to him! I'll PM you my ideas, though... how is her Territory Creation looking like? Asking for... Archery reasons.

@Red Alice

-Sigh-

Fate/Zero Material, Diarmuid:


Knight Tactics didn't exist when /Zero was created. Its sole purpose is because Diarmuid only otherwise has two non-MR skills, so when he was released in Grand Order a skill needed to be created to fill the gap. Since that skill is simply one big reference to fighting against Saber, it doesn't actually add any ability that he didn't already possess--said skill being EotM. Knight Tactics is literally just a way of describing how EMIYA survives fighting Cu ffs, which is EotM.

I think you're missing my point like with the 'B- PC' stuff

Assassins already get independent action as an off-screen skill at B- rank.

I don't think I'm missing any point, here, unless independent action now abbreviates to a completely different skill.