For what it's worth, VRAINS also gave us the only protagonist with the dubious honor of getting his ace monster on the banlist (lol Firewall), so, uh... Yeah. That said, even 5Ds had some crazy stuff; Yusei was basically running Junk Doppel by the end of 5Ds, for example. Arc-V had Yuya pulling off Performage shenanigans like nothing else, iirc.

Not quite. Yusei's strategy mostly came down to "Summon Stardust dragon, pass" rather than vomiting out a board of synchros. Even in the final duel against Jack, when he pulled off his craziest combo in the show, it was only to pump up Junk Warrior's ATK through a bunch of low-level monsters getting their attack boosted. The turn mainly consisted of him getting level 2 or lowers on the field and then pull of a single synchro for a single attack; Yusei rarely summoned more than a single monster at any point. This is mostly consistent throughout every show, except for Arc-V and Vrains.

Even in Arc-V, most people just sat on their singular boss monster and very few actually multi-summoned. Yuya's deck got reduced to "Dark Rebellion turbo" beyond a point, and only rarely did he summon 2 or more bosses in a turn. Even in situations where he did, they had to invent cheat cards to let him do it so they wouldn't bog down the duel too much (See: Odd-Eyes Fusion Gate, Odd-Eyes Synchro Gate and Odd-Eyes Xyz Gate)

The *one* duelist in all of Arc-V who was a consistent multi-summon monster was Reiji. The guy also barely dueled, and when he did, he won or got closer to winning than anyone else could have. The man was built up as a very real threat.

Regarding progression: I mean, if you limit pack availability, I think it becomes possible to progress that way? If you take the Satellite-esque path, that's an... Option, but I'm not sure what direction you want to take that because of the emphasis on Synchro + Speed duels.

Yeah, but if I limit you to only the trash pack, and you chain pull trash, then it doesn't help matters. It's essentially a snowball effect where the strong stay on top, and I'd rather not. As for the synchro and Turbo/Riding duel focus; It doesn't have to be. Just because 5D's is associated with it, doesn't mean we have to copy it verbatum. I love my turbo duels, but whether or not I include them is entirely dependant on if players want them in there. Even then, Arc-V had a watered down version and people were Xyz and Pendulum summoning just fine through it.

And also, you forget that I'm your not-so-benevolent dictator and will absolutely breathe down your neck if you dare to play a card at a x3 ratio for any reason other than "it summons itself from the deck when destroyed by battle so I need a few"

So yeah, look at us all waiting for somthin we can respond to.

I think we gotta decide if we use ante, and if there are special cards. Those are gonna affect what kind of story this'll be, probably.

I'm staying as a hard no against both of those options, I don't really see them as fun and giving up your cards from a duel seems like an incentive to cheat, or at least be salty if you lose

So yeah, look at us all waiting for somthin we can respond to.

I think we gotta decide if we use ante, and if there are special cards. Those are gonna affect what kind of story this'll be, probably.

I'm staying as a hard no against both of those options, I don't really see them as fun and giving up your cards from a duel seems like an incentive to cheat, or at least be salty if you lose

I mean, "special cards" is a bit of a series staple. It just depends on what form they take. Even in Vrains, having a "cyberse deck" was a big deal, as it meant you were directly linked to one of the Ignis ans thus actually got to do something in the plot. Otherwise we have the Dimension Dragons, Numbers, Signer Dragons, Sacred Beasts and God cards just to name a few, not to mention the "not quite one-in-a-kind but still extremely rare" option of Kaiba's Blue-Eyes or Ryo's Cyber Dragons. Even Arc-V treated an extra deck monster of any kind as a sign of what kind of background you had, and 5D's had synchro's be a status symbol of some renown.

What I was mainly asking at the start was if everyone wanted something unique to just them, and I've only seen a "no" on that front. There's absolutely still going to be a way for me to prop up specific cards in the story even without that, though.

On the ante thing: Already dropped that.

Since I know a fair number of people hated Master Rule 4, would there be any special rules in place for summoning extra deck monsters or is Master Rule 5 going to be used as is?

Since I know a fair number of people hated Master Rule 4, would there be any special rules in place for summoning extra deck monsters or is Master Rule 5 going to be used as is?

don't hit me with the hard-hitting questions like this

Probably just going to use a slight mod where I unscrew pendulum because Konami's done it dirty.

<Since I know a fair number of people hated Master Rule 4, would there be any special rules in place for summoning extra deck monsters or is Master Rule 5 going to be used as is?>

don't hit me with the hard-hitting questions like this

Probably just going to use a slight mod where I unscrew pendulum because Konami's done it dirty.

Yeah, I've clearly not been keeping up with the game cause I have no idea what the hell any of that is.

<Snipped quote by Kaggs>
What I was mainly asking at the start was if everyone wanted something unique to just them, and I've only seen a "no" on that front. There's absolutely still going to be a way for me to prop up specific cards in the story even without that, though.

I mean, I personally don't see a problem with this and wouldn't be opposed to it. At the same time, I understand the reasoning for being opposed to them being that people are looking for a more street level, character driven RP that isn't focused on these super important cards and people but everyday folks living in the world. I don't really care either way. It might be interesting to have people who join make decks for a specific card that acts as a signature or whatever you want to call it, but that might be a limiting factor that other people wouldn't like.

Yeah, I've clearly not been keeping up with the game cause I have no idea what the hell any of that is.

Master Rule = the rules of the game. In Master Rule 4, an extra type zone was added to the game board called the "Extra Monster Zone", of which 2 are on the middle of the board. Each player can summon a single extra deck monster (Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulums that were sent there, Link) to one of those zones, after which they can no longer summon a monster from the extra deck *unless* they have a link monster pointing to one of their other monster zones, or unless the monster in their extra zone is destroyed or moved somewhere else.

Link monsters are monsters summoned from the extra deck that contain up to 8 arrows on their cards, with each arrow equalling one monster you need to sacrifice for its summon. Those arrows point diagonally, horizontally and vertically, which is how they point to certain zones to allow for summoning.

Pendulum monsters are like regular monster cards, but two of them can be played in the Spell and Trap zones as Spell cards. When two of them are there, look at the pendulum scales printed on the cards. Unless the card says otherwise, once per turn, you can summon any number of monsters from your hand with levels that are in between the Pendulum scales of your two pendulum monsters (so if you had a scale 1 and a scale 3, you can only summon level 2 monsters. if that scale 3 was a scale 7, you can summon anywhere from level 2 to level 6.)

Additionally, pendulum monsters that are destroyed on the field go to your Extra Deck instead, from which they can be pendulum summoned back, but the same rules apply to them as to Extra Deck monsters (where you cannot summon more than 1 without a link monster)

Under master rule 5, the restrictions on extra deck monsters were lifted and you could now summon as many as you like again, with two exceptions: Pendulums, and Links. For links it makes sense since they get effects based on if they're pointing to another link monster or not, but for pendulums this rule absolutely guts them as they are meant to come back into play over and over. Therefor, I would lift the restriction and allow a player to summon any number of Pendulum monsters from their extra deck again, regardless of whether or not they have a link monster pointing to a zone.

if this sounds confusing, don't worry. It is.

<Snipped quote by webboysurf>

Master Rule = the rules of the game. In Master Rule 4, an extra type zone was added to the game board called the "Extra Monster Zone", of which 2 are on the middle of the board. Each player can summon a single extra deck monster (Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulums that were sent there, Link) to one of those zones, after which they can no longer summon a monster from the extra deck *unless* they have a link monster pointing to one of their other monster zones, or unless the monster in their extra zone is destroyed or moved somewhere else.

Link monsters are monsters summoned from the extra deck that contain up to 8 arrows on their cards, with each arrow equalling one monster you need to sacrifice for its summon. Those arrows point diagonally, horizontally and vertically, which is how they point to certain zones to allow for summoning.

Pendulum monsters are like regular monster cards, but two of them can be played in the Spell and Trap zones as Spell cards. When two of them are there, look at the pendulum scales printed on the cards. Unless the card says otherwise, once per turn, you can summon any number of monsters from your hand with levels that are in between the Pendulum scales of your two pendulum monsters (so if you had a scale 1 and a scale 3, you can only summon level 2 monsters. if that scale 3 was a scale 7, you can summon anywhere from level 2 to level 6.)

Additionally, pendulum monsters that are destroyed on the field go to your Extra Deck instead, from which they can be pendulum summoned back, but the same rules apply to them as to Extra Deck monsters (where you cannot summon more than 1 without a link monster)

Under master rule 5, the restrictions on extra deck monsters were lifted and you could now summon as many as you like again, with two exceptions: Pendulums, and Links. For links it makes sense since they get effects based on if they're pointing to another link monster or not, but for pendulums this rule absolutely guts them as they are meant to come back into play over and over. Therefor, I would lift the restriction and allow a player to summon any number of Pendulum monsters from their extra deck again, regardless of whether or not they have a link monster pointing to a zone.

if this sounds confusing, don't worry. It is.

You're saying a lot of words, and they make some amount of sense.

TBH, I dropped out of the game during the time of Synchro summons, so anything beyond that I'm gonna have to take a refresher course in understanding. Might even just make a character that uses a more old school deck rather than the new pendulum or link cards or whatever.

I've been casually on and off, and still don't get pendulums xD

RE: Signature Cards and Plot Scale
I enjoy the idea of people having special cards (real or custom), but that's really a system everyone needs to buy into in order to make it work. As for the scale, I see the appeal of street level RPs, but I've always liked the high stakes, world/universe/dimensional-scale lore underlying everything myself. I guess I'll see how this all hashes out.

ANYWAY

because someone already suggested what i was going to suggest (5Ds-ass duel gang memes) i come with a new, improved, innovative and infinitely more powerful meme:

we should make an rp called yugioh xd and make it about a duel academy for ex-delinquents

@webboysurf: If you want a video explanation, I think Cimoooooooo has some good explanations for Pendulums and Links.

<Snipped quote by Ammokkx>

You're saying a lot of words, and they make some amount of sense.

TBH, I dropped out of the game during the time of Synchro summons, so anything beyond that I'm gonna have to take a refresher course in understanding. Might even just make a character that uses a more old school deck rather than the new pendulum or link cards or whatever.

You probably don't know what an Xyz monster is either, then. To quickly sum it up, an Xyz monster is a type of Extra Deck monster that summons itself by using monsters on the field of the same level.

Xyz monsters, instead of levels, have ranks. That means that a card which says "Increase the level of your monster by 1" doesn't work on an Xyz monster. A rank 4 Xyz monster will need level 4 monsters to summon it, much like how a level 8 synchro would need a level 4 tuner and a level 4 non-tuner (or any combination that adds up to 8, but I'm using two level 4's to make the comparison easier). Once you have the right amount of equally-levelled monsters on the field, you stack them on top of one another and then place the Xyz monster on top of them. This is because the monsters underneath that Xyz monster act as a way to activate the Xyz monster's effect: By sending a material it used to the graveyard, their effect activates.

To illustrate this, I'll use the first Xyz monster shown off in full: "Number 17: Leviathan Dragon."

Leviathan Dragon needs two level 3 monsters to summon it. When they're used to summon it, it will have 2 materials. If you detach one of those materials and send it to the graveyard to activate its effects, it will both have 1 material and have gained 500 ATK. You can then, later, send the second material to the graveyard as well, making it gain another 500 ATK but making it so it can no longer attack anything other than a monster, since it no longer has any monsters stacked underneath it.

Here is a link and a pendulum card to demonstrate, as I talked about those earlier as well.

Re: What Grey said about special cards

As for the scale, I see the appeal of street level RPs, but I've always liked the high stakes, world/universe/dimensional-scale lore underlying everything myself. I guess I'll see how this all hashes out.

I'm going to get there eventually whether people want me to or not, dw about it bby.

hot

<As for the scale, I see the appeal of street level RPs, but I've always liked the high stakes, world/universe/dimensional-scale lore underlying everything myself. I guess I'll see how this all hashes out.>

I'm going to get there eventually whether people want me to or not, dw about it bby.

Scaling up over time might be nice. Starting with the stakes high would make it hard for growth.

But, to address my thoughts on the RP and to try and synthesize my thoughts on a few points that have been brought up, I do think starting in a place where decks are getting built up would be great. It would be fun to have to RP the whole process of not only opening a random pack of cards, but having to trade and barter with other people to get the cards you need to make your deck better. The only thing I see as a potential obstacle is just being bogged down with cards that you don't need if you're playing a highly customized or specific deck.

An idea that I'd like to toss out and might help in some way: as part of people applying as a character, have people make a base deck and then include a list of cards for building the deck down the line. It allows people to start out with the base cards they might need to play a specific character that would fit into the universe (like, for example, the idea of having a character who works on duel runners and/or duel disks as a mechanic and also uses a gadget or machina deck) from the beginning with only room to improve over time. Then, with opening packs, it could be that there is a certain percentage chance that one of the cards in the pack is one that you specified for your deck later, or that you have to buy a more expensive pack that guarantees one or two cards that you specified from character creation to improve the deck.

If you went this route, you can even have people updating their lists of cards down the line in stages over the course of the RP, or have it tiered off. People's "unique" card can be changed at key points within the RP as sort of upgrades, so that decks don't remain stagnant or focused on static card types.

People's "unique" card can be changed at key points within the RP as sort of upgrades, so that decks don't remain stagnant or focused on static card types.

I feel the need to isolate this specifically because you don't seem to quite

get it

What you're probably referring to is a deck's "ace", the cornerstone that carries you through duels. Yes, these "change" in the anime, but only in so far that it's the same monster getting a new form. Atem's cornerstone is always Dark Magician, Judai always summoning Flame wingman Neos, Yusei always falls back on Stardust, Yuma plays Number 39: Utopia every duel, Yuya keeps going back to Odd-Eyes and Yusaku-

...uh

So anyway, while I was never really intent on having people specifically denote an ace in their deck, I don't think I'm going to be too fond of people who treat it like how you describe it to be. Besides, if a "unique" card can be swapped out at any point, I don't think it's quite so unique. Yeah, Jonouchi lost his Red-Eyes for a while, and he most certainly didn't start out with it, but his entire arc was still about him being becoming worthy to get it back. Red-Eyes never really stopped being his most powerful, most treasured monster, even when he didn't have it for a long while. Once you settle on your character having an ace, I don't think you should swap it out at all.

And back when I said "unique" I do mean it like that- unique. A one-of-a-kind card nobody else holds or is able to hold that pretty much defines your character's identity. It's not something that should be swapped out at will. Though it looks more likely, to me, that I will introduce some card or series of cards that are one-of-a-kind. The players can or cannot obtain it, depends on my mood really, and they don't have to automatically become what defines them. Despite Atem holding the three gods, his deck never stopped having its own identity. Hell, pretty much the first thing he did in his final duel, despite holding the gods, was turbo out his trusty Dark Magician. That should show how I intend that selfsame element to be treated.

Anyway, on card progression: I'm going to be real here? The more this is being discussed, the more I kind of want to eat my words as it's starting to sound like a bad and uncomfortable idea for me. If the people want it, I'm not one to deny them, but uh... I'm not going to lie, the whole "buying packs" aspect in Duel Tower was always kind of something that weirded me out and took me out of the story. Yes, it was entirely natural for these kids to go to ye ol' card shoppe and get some new stuff, but for some reason it always felt like an incredible detour. Having them also trade among themselves was a thing that happened, and looking back on it I just never... felt quite right with it.

The only time opening packs ever really came up was a couple of times in Duel Monsters, once in GX and then never again. I actually end up preferring when they don't go out of their way to explain where these cards come from, because despite the added realism, it just feels a little too "real" on my end. I'm just a weird guy though, so don't take my word for it.

Also I'm not entirely too sure about the card list idea; honestly, if people want new cards, 's prolly best just to tell me straight-up. Start of with a low-power deck that you upgrade over the course of the RP independent of any kind of system, but more just as your character grows. Think about it this way: Its pretty much been established that none of the duels are left up to luck at this point. Even if you don't write a skeleton ahead of time, the winner is more often than not predetermined, and even if it isn't, you can choose what you have at any given point in time anyway. Only one guy vouched for having me draw the cards for you guys, while the rest was like "nah we got this fam" so at that point I'm a bit "eh" about the whole card progression thing. I still think it should happen, but not something that should be given too much attention or focus. More like... just updating the deck as you go along. Swap out cards you don't use, maybe streamline it a bit but still have the identity you started with.

It's just my personal take on the situation. As LunarStandard said way back, a "point buy" system is best reserved for when you're actually playing out the duels with luck elements to them, as it ensures everyone is on a level playing field at all time. Here, you don't really need to be. There's no worry about consistency, only card choices, and you can worm yourself out of anything if you left enough options for yourself with a bit of extra elbow grease. Creative deckbuilding takes precedence over competetive, and I just want to encourage people to use really out-of-the-way stuff.

But yeah, if people want to pull packs I'll let 'em pull packs. Seems like there's two in favor of the idea already.

Like how this turned into a basic refreshing lesson for the rules of the game. Ngl, I was a fan of Master Rule 4 and I'm kinda worried about what Master Rule 5 will do to the meta (build-a-board / break-a-board or lose), but luckily, we don't even need to think about that here, as that's clearly not what duels will be like. Huzzah to that thought.
I can't get behind the whole pack opening thing though, as it adds a lot of random factors into it, which I really dislike. I mean, you can mitigate it by saying something like what webboysurf suggested with a base deck and a list of cards you plan to use down the line, combined with something like a shop where you can turn your cards in for some form of currency, which can be exchanged for cards later on. (Think something like dust in Hearthstone) That would make it not purely random, so people who only pull trash can still get the cards they want, just that they'll have to invest more cards / currency into them than they'd have had to by pulling them from a pack. Of course, trading can also somewhat fix this, but trading with trash is still no good.
Unique cards seem like a good way to build character, represent character development and giving the Decks some flavor. Although I'd not make it mandatory, as not having a specific ace monster to rely on can also suit some characters, if they have more of a 'united we stand' mentality (pun intended) when it comes to their cards.

I think that we should skip the packs altogether, because adding random elements to a rp always tend to overly complicate things, especially on the GMs part. Just have a person come upon a card they want, that's approved after awhile, or fuel for cars.

@Amaranthine: Honestly, I think not much is going to change post-MR5? It'll be wild west early on because of all the old decks coming out of retirement, but given the current situation who the heck knows what will happen until after a banlist (if any). We'll likely see scattered Simorgh lock and Union Carrier lock, but beyond that, uh...

I guess we see if TCG hits Verte early? Pray for no Dragun flood? No idea beyond that, since all the big meta decks aside from Salad took a beating last list (and even then, losing Mirage is semi-acceptable). Only thing I'd be worried about is Invoked Doll/SPYRAL dominating the format despite the rule change.

Okay, competitive talk aside.

Re: packs: (again): If majority rules no packs, then ignore my earlier attempts at trying to push for them and go no packs. Progression scaling to RP and, given recent discussion, placing the characters of the RP in a less established position in the world probably does lend itself more to starting with scraps and building with whatever the wind throws at them.