Video Games: The General Discussion & Community Thread

[Ammokkx]

The true enjoyment of playing an MMO is when you know there is a cool goal just beyond that boring quest that has you grinding up 300 tigers or some such. So you go into a field and stand for two hours grinding on tigers. And it's as boring as this conversation. Only you aren't alone. There are tens of other players in that same field grinding those same tigers all being bored and yet all looking for that shiny goal in the end.

@PPQ Purple

yeah you definitely haven't played an MMO past 2004

[Fabricant451]

The true enjoyment of playing an MMO is when you know there is a cool goal just beyond that boring quest that has you grinding up 300 tigers or some such. So you go into a field and stand for two hours grinding on tigers. And it's as boring as this conversation. Only you aren't alone. There are tens of other players in that same field grinding those same tigers all being bored and yet all looking for that shiny goal in the end.

@PPQ Purple

Again, it's not the days of Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot anymore. The 'grind' in MMOs these days is either in getting to endgame (without just dumping cash on a level skip) or else the gear grind at endgame which has less to do with collecting tiger skins and bear asses and more to do with finding a consistent group to farm the current raid tier every week. What keeps someone playing at endgame is the other content that is fun or engaging for the individual. Players set their own goals that don't even have to do with socializing. Some players want to collect mounts, others want to play mini games, some might want to fuckin' fish all day, whatever it is the social aspect is an enhancement at best and certainly not a requirement.

Besides, in a true MMO most people just have bots or macro shit to farm what they need and then inflate the market prices while they watch The Office for the hundredth time or some shit.

[Ammokkx]

Ohey I just remembered another two things I can be confrontational about

I personally have tried more than 10 (I lost count) of the various free MMOs out there and I can't even remember their names. I remember Silkroad Online because it was my first game of the genre but that's about it. I don't even remember what the last one was.

@PPQ Purple

Ah, yes, you bounced between 10+ games... you remember only a single name of... and yet you're going to claim a lot of them do something right, despite you having no memorable experiences in them.

Do you know why Guild Wars 2, FFXIV, WoW, Runescape and so forth continue to find enduring success? Because they keep finding new ways to keep the individual player engaged. To keep them coming back, so the collective as a whole doesn't collapse.

The very fact you're playing none of the games you have done so in the past shows that they failed to keep your retention. You not being there anymore, by definition, also means you can't socialize in them anymore. You are not finding anything worth going back for. What kind of café doesn't hold its customers? Why would you think those MMOs did their job well when you can't even remember them?

At that point there literally is no more point talking to you as you will continue to demand your odd and unusual perspective is the correct one.

@PPQ Purple

Also this lovely gem.

Yes, I'm the one with the unpopular perspective, just because I'm the first to call you out on this incomprehensibly backwards logic you are utilizing. Despite the fact several others in this thread, while not sharing my exact viewpoint, have all pointed out in their own way that the MMOs they play are, in fact, fun as a single-player experience too. Despite that, you would claim you are the authority, the one who isn't playing MMOs? The one who can't stick with one? Despite the fact there are this many people in here telling you that you are wrong for expecting games to conform to one single-minded, narrow idea based on flawed past experience you laud over others as if it were the gospel of God himself?

PPQ, I hesitated to say Sleeping was playing games wrong, but you are definitely playing videogames wrong if you think your stances are the popular ones. I don't diss others for finding their own value in games as long as they find that value, but you seem to think there are objectively good and bad ways to handle game design, yet you continually fail to recognize what the core appeal of games is to so many people.

Everyone confronting you can name actual examples of games that do what you claim they're doing wrong, right. You can name a single MMO and a few dozen other unnamed ones, and the one named one you only remember because it's your first. Not because you had anything to do in it. Meanwhile, we're supposed to believe that this makes you know what you're talking about better than we do.

Please, firstly get with the times, and then come back when you know what you are talking about.

[BrokenPromise]

Also triple triad is amazing. Against people or bots.

[Ammokkx]

Also triple triad is amazing. Against people or bots.

@BrokenPromise

it's a shame you don't have a sub going 'cause I would've played you a game

...if you were on primal, that is

[BrokenPromise]

@Ammokkx If I get back into it, they made it pretty easy to visit other people's worlds and quest together. The only thing you can't really do off server is join a FC or squat in someone's mansion.

But I picked up some steam games, and I'm still going through Muv-Luv Alternative, which is a 50 hour visual novel. So it'll be a bit before my cat grill returns to play.

[Carlyle]

<Snipped quote by PPQ Purple>

yeah you definitely haven't played an MMO past 2004

@Ammokkx

Yeah, even the biggest MMO out there, WoW, isn't like that anymore. I haven't grinded "300 tigers" in a long time. Even with Blizzard's Classic or private servers, there's no reason to grind like that outside the few moments where old school bullshit RNG plays a factor because the internet isn't what it once was and the player skill level has gone up considerably since those days. If anything the grind is more akin to what @Fabricant451 said.

[Ammokkx]

@Ammokkx If I get back into it, they made it pretty easy to visit other people's worlds and quest together. The only thing you can't really do off server is join a FC or squat in someone's mansion.

@BrokenPromise

Only if you're on the same datacenter. I play on Primal/Exodus, but of the two people I know the server of on the guild, they're both on Aether so I'm shit out of luck playing with them.

[BrokenPromise]

@Ammokkx Just checked, Leviathan is a server on the Primal datacenter, so there should be no problems.

[Carlyle]

But I picked up some steam games, and I'm still going through Muv-Luv Alternative, which is a 50 hour visual novel. So it'll be a bit before my cat grill returns to play.

@BrokenPromise

[Ammokkx]

I feel the whole "way too much backlog" issue

Between the garbage I like playing (Nekopara vol. 4) and the actual good, but long stuff I need to get around to (NieR automata, replaying Ever 17) and the fact I have a crippling XIV addiction, there's like no time to play all the shit I want to

I'll get around to muv luv myself, one day. a long day from now, even.

[AtomicNut]

Can't go wrong with android thicc booty.

[BrokenPromise]

Present game backlog looks something like this:

Muv-Luv Alternative: I'm about 20 hours in, but I really like that this game is just uncomfortable and/or underground enough that not everyone and their brother is talking about it, so I'll refrain from saying anything about it here. Just that it's a well constructed world, even if the infodumps can be long at times.

SYNTHETIK: A rouge-lite where you're an android blowing up other androids and robots and oh my god how did I die I had so much HP and a killer weapon that got .5% stronger every time I head shot and I had 200% extra damage. If You're done with Hades, it's worth a look.

Gris: Haven't even started it, but I like the art style and I know I'm going to be in the mood for a pretentious platformer like that at some point.

God Eater 3: I've only played it a little bit, and it's kind of easy. What few reviews I looked at says it starts to present a challenge after 10 hours. Hard to recommend just yet, but it's similar enough to god eater 1 & 2 that you can probably pick it up if you like those games.

The Fruit of Grisaia: Haven't started it, and I won't until Muv-Luv Alternate is done. But I was recommended it by a connoisseur of VNs, so I'm expecting good things.

Tales of Berseria: Only put a few hours on this one, but so far it's as good as any other "tales of" game. That is to say the story is "meh" leaning, with too many contrivances to be taken seriously. But the active take on turn based fights where you string together combos and dodge/block in real time. I personally find Velvet's selfish quest for revenge and find her gothic-level teen edge amusing.

[Ammokkx]

The Fruit of Grisaia: Haven't started it, and I won't until Muv-Luv Alternate is done. But I was recommended it by a connoisseur of VNs, so I'm expecting good things.

@BrokenPromise

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

This VN wastes so much time on needless fluff and none of the routes are good

Fuck Fruit of Grisaia

[FamishedPants]

@Ammokkx If I get back into it, they made it pretty easy to visit other people's worlds and quest together. The only thing you can't really do off server is join a FC or squat in someone's mansion.

But I picked up some steam games, and I'm still going through Muv-Luv Alternative, which is a 50 hour visual novel. So it'll be a bit before my cat grill returns to play.

@BrokenPromise

You seem like the kinda guy who needs to hurry up and finish MLA. Here, you can have this for no reason in particular.

[BrokenPromise]

Oh, and G-senjou no Maou - The Devil on G-String is a VN I cleared a bit ago. I think it took me 20-ish hours to finish, and that was alright. Certainly with the sale going you can do a lot worse for 10$. It's an alright mystery VN. It fluctuates between mediocre and good, but the things it does good are really good.

[PPQ Purple]

You can say what ever you want but I will until my dying day hold that what I described is what differentiates a good from a bad MMO. And yes, I am aware it's an old and "outdated" formula. But that's the point. All MMOs that have come since or have "evolved" past this are simply doing it wrong. Which by the way is the reason I quit the genre to begin with. It changed and now it sucks and I hold and will hold this to my dying day. And there is nothing you can ever say to convince me of the opposite.

And if that makes you all upset than that's your problem. I am entitled to my opinion.

[Ammokkx]

But that's the point. All MMOs that have come since or have "evolved" past this are simply doing it wrong.

@PPQ Purple

Which is why they continue to make money, right? Because they're doing it wrong. Doing it wrong = holding more players than before and making more cash. Obviously.

Which by the way is the reason I quit the genre to begin with. It changed and now it sucks and I hold and will hold this to my dying day.

@PPQ Purple

Mate you literally can't remember shit about the MMO's you played.

I remember spending hours on Blade & Soul PvP, I remember throwing ninja stars in Maple Story and grinding out event currency, I remember fucking around in Goldshire in WoW.

These games have given me so many worthwhile experiences, even before the evolution, and yet you're going to sit here and tell me that the games you admit you barely remember were doing their job better than the games I remember clearly and have fond memories of?

If I want to socialize with my friends I go play Left 4 Dead 2. That's a great party game.

It's almost like you hate videogames and you have no good arguments, but you like to pretend you know what you're talking about to prop yourself up when you're full of it.

[FamishedPants]

<Snipped quote by BrokenPromise>

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

This VN wastes so much time on needless fluff and none of the routes are good

Fuck Fruit of Grisaia

@Ammokkx

Don't listen to this guy, @BrokenPromise. He probably put Katawa Shoujo at the top of his list. Stick with me and you'll eventually get through any worthwhile VNs that are currently translated. I won't let these hooligans taint you.

[Obscene Symphony]

Y'all I know that game pads evolved the button and joystick model of arcade cabinets but honestly they're just doing it wrong, Halo would be better if it was played exclusively on a Pac-Man machine