Is it overdone? Cliches, popular genres, ect.

[ilovepapa]

Though I have not made too many posts ( mostly due to my nature as a lurker tbh ) I am not new to the RP scene. I am also unfortunately NOT a RP " Veteran " for those of you who remember using yahoo and other older, now either neglected or simply forgotten sites. I am simply a person who loves to read, and tries their hand at writing down the multitude of incomprehensible ideas that show up, then tries to put them into a format that makes sense.

At any rate, My question for the audience ( getting a little ahead of myself there. ) is this.

Out of everything you have seen in your time roleplaying, be it participating or simply watching silently with your popcorn like it's some sort of episodic soap opera, are there cliches, generes, character archetypes that you hate seeing? Do you enjoy anything fitting these descriptions? Why?

Personally, I myself enjoy trying to properly create older characters, not quite elderly but more along the lines of a parent. I also enjoy the whole " hopeless romantic " trope if the people involved know what they are doing.

What I dislike however, is the character type I will simply describe as ' EDGY ' though it can be so much more. When a character is sad and angry just to be sad and angry, with no real goal in mind and nothing else interesting to the point that it forces others to bring up that the character is sad and angry. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy having bad things happen to my characters, not everything can be sunshine and rainbows, but when those bad things are all that is interesting about the character, well it's a big turn-off for me.

[Quincy]

What I dislike however, is the character type I will simply describe as ' EDGY ' though it can be so much more.

@ilovepapa

This.

[Ammokkx]

I hate people, mostly. Not so much ideas.

Anything and everything can be done well, regardless of quantity or popularity.

I don't really know if I fit into 'liking' one particular character over another- I've played a whole slew of them. Hell, the three favorites of mine are all different in their own way. One is tragic, one is an anti-hero and the last one is fucking adorable. Genres is something else, as I naturally gravitate to high fantasy and some fandoms I'm in.

Naw, the only thing that grinds my gears is people taking shit super personally. Critique an idea of theirs, or their execution, and they get uppity and defensive as if you've insulted their family, regardless of how polite you are about it. I Gm'd an RP once and had to deal with this on, like, three separate occasions. Not fun.

Re-used characters is a personal pet-peeve too, because they're mostly indicative of major self-inserts that lead to the above behaviour. One guy I know is particularly notorious for this.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

A tremendously unpopular opinion at this point, so much so that this might start some measure of controversy, but let me be clear I have no desire to change my mind; there is no point in trying to take a stand for it as some might feel compelled to. Let me begin that it seems particularly faddish, in that the only things that remind me of the fascination were other trends of their time that swamped the genre, be them Harry Potter or Twilight, yet is far larger and more widespread than any of those types. More widespread than the fact so many "original characters" were "random", "crazy", or "insane", gods or god-like in power, or wolves or dragons. What is such a thing I find vastly cliche and excessively, unreasonably popular, at least where the greater community is concerned, to the point it might cause argument?

Anime as a fandom in roleplaying is overdone.

Not just overdone but vastly overrepresented to the point I admit I roll my eyes whenever I see a quasi-serious or more realistic topic suddenly have a character submitted to it from the archetype, usually the giveaway being the face claimed artwork. Alternatively, when lacking thereof, exaggerated hair color or bizarrely named abilities or talents. For obvious reasons this is expected in the associated topics, i.e. fandom topics, although it is so pervasive it consistently appears in genres outside itself and relies heavily on tropes. Not that I bothered counting the amount, I merely note there is no shortage of "magical girl of suspiciously young age", "shy guy who is bad at things", "angst ridden youth with powers and or sword", "evil demon child often with doll or toy", and related. While I am aware these stock characters exist for a reason in the greater application of the genre, being crucial to some extent there, I find it terribly banal where roleplaying is concerned.

Now the the question of course here is why do I take issue with this beyond the obvious and for myself that lies in the fact I play the to-earth manner. That is to say I prefer my characters and topics to simultaneously be "as-if" and worlds much like our own, with obvious changes to accommodate their inherent breaks from realism. Without prattling on, it upsets the suspension of disbelief and going on the mental journey to imagine the events; a reason I prefer roleplays sans pictures as a whole. However, it is not so limited in my experience. Stock characters are, just as one would expect them to be, hardly interesting or original, and it makes it harder still to interact with them when they are often as exaggerated as they are either by the design of their player or by merely copying from only what they know in the source inspiration.

Granted I have been doing this for some time, a couple of decades, so I believe I have a fair idea of what gets turned into tropes and people tend to skew toward, I am also particularly jaded. No less, before it gets brought up, for reasons I myself still am looking into I do tend to be innately opposed to whatever is trendy at the time; it always seems shallow to me, et cetera. Regardless, relic of the past or not, I still find it overrepresented and commonplace to the point its veneer has worn off. People are free to like whatever they like but in roleplaying keeping it topic and genre appropriate needs be valued much more. There is a time and place for everything.

[pugbutter]

I'm a sucker for genuinely bad guys showing off redeeming qualities, especially in terms of good manners, a code of honor, that sort of thing. Like that scene in any cheesy fantasy story where the hero and the villain are squaring off, and one of the villain's henchmen jumps in trying to tip the odds in his boss's favor. Then the villain kills him and apologizes to the hero for his men's bad manners/weak discipline.

Conversely, I hate the Jax Teller sort of character where the creator's clearly trying to create a "badass," but isn't willing to commit to it because the character also needs sex appeal for the boring mid-40's middle-class housewives spotting him on daytime TV. So you know, he's a biker, and bikers have long mangy hair and big beards, but they can't be too long, so let's make the hair neck-length and let's make the beard a pitiful little six-o'clock shadow. And he's muscly, because he needs to win a fistfight if he gets into one, but not too muscly because lol gross? xD Medieval ranger/rogue types are the worst for this but it pervades all genres to a degree.

So when I see faceclaims like this, or this, or this, combined with descriptions of rugged individualism and a steely exterior hiding a secret heart of gold meant only for those special someones, I'm noping out hard because I'm not interested in heroes trying too hard to look bad. But I'm all over the inverse, a genuinely bad guy whose vanity compels him sometimes to follow the rules.

It ain't logical; we just like what we like. Really the lesson I'd want to convey here is that you should write whatever you want. Someone inevitably won't like it (and you'll see this in the variety of responses to this thread) but that's okay because that one dork will come along and fall in love with it. Or those hundreds and thousands of dorks, because clearly a lot of these ideas have some popular appeal despite how bad they are :^).

[Hero]

So when I see faceclaims like this, or this, or this, combined with descriptions of rugged individualism and a steely exterior hiding a secret heart of gold meant only for those special someones, I'm noping out hard because I'm not interested in heroes trying too hard to look bad. But I'm all over the inverse, a genuinely bad guy whose vanity compels him sometimes to follow the rules.

@pugbutter

>sees Aragorn


In all seriousness, one trope I'd love to see die is the angsty, dark, disproportionate backstory of this 'tragic' character that does nothing but talk about it constantly. Like...I understand backstories shape characters but at the same time you know they do it to rack up sympathy points and have an excuse to wangst about it constantly.

[Hey Im Jordan]

<Snipped quote by pugbutter>

In all seriousness, one trope I'd love to see die is the angsty, dark, disproportionate backstory of this 'tragic' character that does nothing but talk about it constantly. Like...I understand backstories shape characters but at the same time you know they do it to rack up sympathy points and have an excuse to wangst about it constantly.

@Hero

Yes, yes, yes. This so hard. I write a lot of fluffy slice of life RPs(don't @me), and so so many people write long, edgy, over the top, and angsty backstories. I've done it before myself, sure, but people will make it like the entire focal point of their character.

Like, there is nothing to this character except their depressing backstory because everyone looks at roleplaying as a way to drink an espresso depresso.

[Todd Howard]

In all seriousness, one trope I'd love to see die is the angsty, dark, disproportionate backstory of this 'tragic' character that does nothing but talk about it constantly. Like...I understand backstories shape characters but at the same time you know they do it to rack up sympathy points and have an excuse to wangst about it constantly.

@Hero

It gets brought up in every IC post they make to make it extra repetitive and annoying. And even leaks into OOC conversations as they just continue trying to push it further, and further as something truly horrible that we should all be taking note of every breathing moment.

pain

[Hero]

<Snipped quote by Hero>

It gets brought up in every IC post they make to make it extra repetitive and annoying. And even leaks into OOC conversations as they just continue trying to push it further, and further as something truly horrible that we should all be taking note of every breathing moment.

pain

@Todd Howard

I completely forgot about the OOC leakage, ugh, pls no.

<Snipped quote by Hero>

Yes, yes, yes. This so hard. I write a lot of fluffy slice of life RPs(don't @me), and so so many people write long, edgy, over the top, and angsty backstories. I've done it before myself, sure, but people will make it like the entire focal point of their character.

Like, there is nothing to this character except their depressing backstory because everyone looks at roleplaying as a way to drink an espresso depresso.

@Hey Im Jordan

You just don't understand their paaaaaaaaaiiiin /s

It just gets so old so quick...worst part is, a tragic backstory can be used well. It can add some depth to a character, provide some motives, too. But no, this sort of character prefers to just be 2edgy4u.

[Hey Im Jordan]

<Snipped quote by Todd Howard>

I completely forgot about the OOC leakage, ugh, pls no.

<Snipped quote by Hey Im Jordan>

You just don't understand their paaaaaaaaaiiiin /s

It just gets so old so quick...worst part is, a tragic backstory can be used well. It can add some depth to a character, provide some motives, too. But no, this sort of character prefers to just be 2edgy4u.

@Hero

It can be done well, yes, I agree. But it never is. Very rarely is it handled tastefully and respectfully, it's often just shoehorned in and forced. Depression/addiction/a broken family... all of that is fine, it can be used for character development and depth, but my god please. Don't make it the only thing the character has!

This is some good venting we're doing.

[Hero]

<Snipped quote by Hero>

It can be done well, yes, I agree. But it never is. Very rarely is it handled tastefully and respectfully, it's often just shoehorned in and forced. Depression/addiction/a broken family... all of that is fine, it can be used for character development and depth, but my god please. Don't make it the only thing the character has!

This is some good venting we're doing.

@Hey Im Jordan

Gets to the point you unintentionally cringe when it pops up. For shame.

Also agreed.

[Fabricant451]

Bonus cringe points if the edgy dark past broodster is like under the age of 21.

[PrinceAlexus]

Overdone. Well not just one type but thr type that work a single cliche to the nth degree.
. Just because you have a bad past, does not require the full country song I lost ma pick up and so.

Or gay, being gay on every aspect. Everyone is shaded of greys and other transparency. Have abit of well... More. A cahrcetet is made of multiple values and interests not just one.

[Carlyle]

@The Harbinger of Ferocity Whilst this is a thread of opinion, I can't help but to feel your post equates to "ew, anime." Overlapping of tropes happens, regardless if you find it worthy of eye-rolling or not. I've seen standard western tropes in anime/manga just as well as you've seen eastern tropes in your tales and stories.

Or gay, being gay on every aspect. Everyone is shaded of greys and other transparency. Have abit of well... More. A cahrcetet is made of multiple values and interests not just one.

@PrinceAlexus

Seems to be common in Slice of Life stuff, to the point where the gay/lesbian, bisexual, etc. usually outnumber the hetero characters.

[PrinceAlexus]

@The Harbinger of Ferocity Whilst this is a thread of opinion, I can't help but to feel your post equates to "ew, anime." Overlapping of tropes happens, regardless if you find it worthy of eye-rolling or not. I've seen standard western tropes in anime/manga just as well as you've seen eastern tropes in your tales and stories.

<Snipped quote by PrinceAlexus>

Seems to be common in Slice of Life stuff, to the point where the gay/lesbian, bisexual, etc. usually outnumber the hetero characters.

@Sola

Not always. Some people just overly forget a charceters genders and sexuality is the sole factor.

In reality, its only a part of a greater whole. Its more about a rounded charceter than a 2D trope. You might have 5-10 main aspects not 1.

[ilovepapa]

I myself never got the point of adding in a characters sexuality for a CS unless it was something that would obviously come up in the story. Like and even then it normall had no need to be there, for example a character being married to the opposite or same sex. You can kinda get the idea from there alone. And if it gets to the point where you feel as if it's an important part of your character, I'm all for it, but forcing it into a CS always felt weird to me.

[Vyce]

In all seriousness, one trope I'd love to see die is the angsty, dark, disproportionate backstory of this 'tragic' character that does nothing but talk about it constantly. Like...I understand backstories shape characters but at the same time you know they do it to rack up sympathy points and have an excuse to wangst about it constantly.

@Hero

Exactly; it just makes me think about this screenshotted quote from an Onion article. It's one thing if someone has a troubled backstory, but they strive to move past it--even if they stumble and fall a few times. But when someone uses their tragic past as a justification/excuse for why they deserve a free pass for sociopathic behavior (this article goes into that), that bothers me. Relatedly is when the narrative claims someone's awful behavior should be instantly forgiven because they had good thoughts (despite the character never bothering to act on them or make them manifest) and a heart of gold (that's buried beneath 50 layers of "amoral douchebag" and only prompts one good act every two years), or spent 3.4% of the time not being a prick. Basically, when they want a reward for basic decency.

[Carlyle]

<Snipped quote by Sola>

Not always. Some people just overly forget a charceters genders and sexuality is the sole factor.

In reality, its only a part of a greater whole. Its more about a rounded charceter than a 2D trope. You might have 5-10 main aspects not 1.

@PrinceAlexus

Eh, it's just in my experience that people tend to play LGBT+ characters more often than hetero characters in Slice of Life RPs, but yes, I think some people take it too seriously. I remember a group of newbies to the forum whom had made a big scene because someone preferred not to have a transgender character in their RP. Called them transphobic and everything in the status bar.

[SleepingSilence]

Frankly drama makes nearly all genres in roleplaying far more interesting. I'd much rather have a little angst than something bland and flavorless. The worst thing I often see is character's not matching their history and descriptions well enough. A tragic backstory is one thing, honestly, no truly interesting character hasn't faced their fair share of problems. But if your character acts like they have absolutely no mental hang-ups and never changes in mood appropriate to the situation? I'm calling bullshit on the believability of the character. The biggest problem is seeing half-assed in-character roleplaying, it often shocks me how much I see the few who even remember their CS's well enough to follow them. Let alone making their mental state and actions clear.

But this is about cliches and particular things popular in roleplaying that I'm tired of? Well it's no genre, no trope, no particular habit in general. My opinion on that is that anything can be made good or bad depending on the effort and interest put forward. It's the ever-growing toothless nature of roleplaying. When did it become so sterile and afraid of risk and self-destruction? Nobody has roleplays where people die willingly to enhance the plot of the story. You can't let yourself get hurt or injured to any real degree, even mental scarred characters often just act like grumpy teenagers most times, instead of crossing lines of morality and sanity. You can't be spontaneous in fight scenes. You can't fail. You can never "god-mod", which often just turns into, I did not think of a way to challenge that creature/person. Overpowered characters when written appropriately, can be incredibly enjoyable and interesting ones. In what realistic world has power and wealth differences that aren't often vast? People just seem afraid to push any boundaries. Just roleplaying freely and assuming everyone is there to have fun and create/interact in a world is so rarely done anymore.

Just create your worlds and let people create a story together through creative freedom. Why is this so hard?

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

Whilst this is a thread of opinion, I can't help but to feel your post equates to "ew, anime." Overlapping of tropes happens, regardless if you find it worthy of eye-rolling or not. I've seen standard western tropes in anime/manga just as well as you've seen eastern tropes in your tales and stories.

This would happen to be a thread about things that are "overdone, cliche, and popular genres", @Sola, and the stated issues I take with it tie in with that quite well. By any metric, genres that do not belong in other genres and are full of stereotypical, overused, stock elements in roleplaying likely goes handedly to the anime category at this time. There is nothing with possible comparison in sheer volume and pervasiveness in this manner. As such, I will continue to find it worthy of eye-rolling where it does not belong.