[OOC] Convergence: The Restoration

[Wraithblade6]

We seem to be in a lull.

[VitaVitaAR]

I'm waiting on @TheFake to post.

[Rin]

I need to make a Mei post, but I've also been wondering where the GM went. ^^;

[Masterkeun]

She hasn't been on in five days but it's best to be patient. There are a lot of good reasons she could need a week or so away from a computer.

[VitaVitaAR]

I want to see what Gil does before posting. ^^;

[Wraithblade6]

[FujiwaraPhoenix]

I think I'll wait as well. =3=;;

[Wraithblade6]

*waits on Gil*

[Wraithblade6]

@Raineh Daze How pissed would you be if Gil lost those weapons?

[Absolis]

Slept all weekend. Went to school. Slept... literally all day and night. And now, the day before a test and a presentation in garde manger. I find myself not just, passING out exhausted.

Good for RP. Not so good for my grades tomorrow...

[Raineh Daze]

@Raineh Daze How pissed would you be if Gil lost those weapons?

@Wraithblade6

That's pretty much not possible. Since 1) you can't steal them from him, and 2) you'd pretty much need something on the level of Excalibur's beamspam to break them. The option that would destroy the things (pump them full of magic) would just make them incredibly explosive. He was interested in Roukanken earlier because it shares the same properties.

As I mentioned far back, he's a terrible matchup if you're going to rely on magic because of the nature of his attacks.

[Wraithblade6]

@Raineh Daze so, what I'm wondering is why Gil's magic is any more powerful than Magnus'. I mean, if his weapons shoot through a portal, they may get sent beyond Gil's reach. Or, if the weaponscget zapped, it would depend on how strong the zap was. Also, I have a trick up my sleeve which could cause enough power to destroy them, which is why I ask. Oh, and not all of them would get by mags armor even if they got by.

[Wraithblade6]

Meh. I'll have mags try a few things first. Will be fun.

[thewizardguy]

@Wraithblade6@Raineh Daze

Quick Notes:

1) Gilgamesh has an effectively infinite number of weapons. While there exists a theoretical limit, the amount of shit he can throw at you is in sufficiently high quantity that counting it quickly proves to be pointless. As such, destroying his weapons, with the exception of several particularly potent weapons (Excalibur, Ea, Enkidu, etc.), is mostly pointless.

2) Due to the effect of Gate of Babylon, Gilgamesh can retrieve these weapons pretty much no matter where you send them. As such, the only way to remove them is destruction, which, as previously mentioned, is mostly pointless.

3) Various different weapons display different levels of indestructibility, but all have a baseline strength requiring immense force to actually destroy. Some are capable of reassembling after destruction, or otherwise have specific means of avoiding destruction. Take into account that each of these weapons is a unique magical item, with unique magical properties inherent to that weapon. As such, all will act in different manners.

4) Should you make the weapons sufficiently dirty, Gilgamesh will sometimes leave them behind as having become unworthy of him. He will also often refuse to use his weapons in scenarios that would devalue his treasures in such a manner. Being really disgusting is actually kind of a good counter to him for this reason. An example of this is when he was unwilling to confront the giant tentacle monster summoned by Caster in Fate/Zero, sacrificing only 2 weapons to it, which he refused to retrieve.

5) Magnus easily has the speed and strength required to swat most of these weapons out of the air, and if sufficiently durable that most such weapons would be completely ineffectual against him. For example, a blast from Excalibur's beam effect would only inflict mild damage to Magnus, which would be swiftly regenerated. This is due to Magnus being a Daemon Primarch, and therefore of a scale of being able to walk through nuclear explosions mostly unharmed. It would require some of Gilgamesh's most powerful artifacts to inflict any real damage to Magnus considering this immense damage resistance.

Just a short compilation of my knowledge on the combatants, in relations to each other.

Personal Prediction: Gilgamesh is going to be in serious trouble if he doesn't take Magnus seriously. If he displays his usual arrogance and refuses to accept such a powerful opponent he's going to end up very dead, or with a seriously damaged pride. If he unleashes his full power, even with current limitations, Gil should be able to win, however, even with Magnus' immense power. This is mostly because Magnus has been cut off from his more world-destroying levels of magic, and can no longer stop time.

[Raineh Daze]

@thewizardguy I think you're really overestimating Magnus/underestimating Excalibur there. Daemon Primarch or not, Magnus can still be taken on by really pissed Space Wolves and at their most sophisticated, that's still only laser blades and chainswords. Hell, he's the least melee of the various Daemon Primarchs and the Imperium still has the power to force Angron to get the hell out of there without dropping a billion nukes on him.

Meanwhile, Excalibur is this. Much worse than a nuke, since it destroys anything it touches, but it doesn't have quite the range (probably for the better). Which, if he can shrug that off, makes him vastly more OP than Gil ever was and makes me wonder why he was acceptable in the first place.

It's probably not a good idea to conflate the scale of 40k with how tough everything from 40k is.

[thewizardguy]

@Raineh Daze

At his most sophisticated, Magnus has survived attacks that have annihilated planets, although that is with his defences augmented by the full force of his power. He hardly ever appears in the Materium, and when he does, almost no force the Imperium can deploy is able to take him on. The entire Space Wolves chapter would be unable to defeat him if they mobilized together. The dude is the most powerful Primarch by far, and arguably the most powerful currently active entity other than the Gods in the 40k mythos.

Angron's manifestations do require the effective force of billions of nukes to actually take him out. Take into account that even standard missiles used in ship combat far outclass modern nuclear weaponry, and can easily level countries. And that characters such as Angron have survived being hit by such attacks.

The explosion created by Excalibur is a pebble in a pond compared to a high-powered nuclear weapon, which would have simply leveled the entire city had it been unleashed.

Personally, I was opposed to accepting Magnus, considering his immense power. But this is partially balanced by the fact that he has no real skill in melee, and therefore cannot bring most of his physical prowess to bear properly. His magic is also limited, preventing him from doing stuff like pulling planets into the Warp, stopping time, or just ripping apart his opponents on a subatomic level.

And I am a huge fan of Fate/Zero, which I've watched 3 times now. That clip is awesome XD. Damn. Although Rider is still the best character.

[Masterkeun]

@Raineh Daze
1) by no means is Excalibur on par with a nuclear blast let alone "much worse"
2) Gilgamesh he doesn't have weapons of Excalibur's level. He has the prototypes of the best weapons.
3) that isn't the power of Excalibur that was the power of her Magic Circuits flowed into the weapon which amplifies the users magical abilities.

[Raineh Daze]

@Raineh Daze
1) by no means is Excalibur on par with a nuclear blast let alone "much worse"
2) Gilgamesh he doesn't have weapons of Excalibur's level. He has the prototypes of the best weapons.
3) that isn't the power of Excalibur that was the power of her Magic Circuits flowed into the weapon which amplifies the users magical abilities.

@Masterkeun

1) Nuclear blasts leave survivors and don't automatically obliterate everything. People have survived ground zero of a nuclear blast, albeit rarely. "White light that vapourises all it touches" is its actual description. That's pretty certain.
2) Uh... Merodach, Ea, the Vimana's ancient indian supernukes. His prototypes are actually better than the later weapons they're based off. Hell, Iskander's chariot is Excalibur's level and would be in there.
3) ... so the power of Excalibur is... activating Excalibur with as much mana as you have! Which, conveniently, is enough to destroy anything in the path of the beam. Good job.

@thewizardguy He also failed to attack Fenris and, as noted, is already cut off from the power that would require him to take entire nukes to melt. He'd be pretty dead from Excalibur and if he wasn't dead from Excalibur, we've entered the awkward zone of "he's untouchable to everyone except Gil because that's no-selling every weapon we have."

Excalibur's more powerful than a nuke but it doesn't have the range. An incredibly hot rapid expansion of gases might be devastating, but it's not quite as final as evaporating an elder god. :p

And Gil has a specific advantage in Magnus's claim of being a demigod. If this fight really goes on like that, it would have to end execution-style, wouldn't it?

[Masterkeun]

1) I was comparing the kill counts because as said repeatedly "If used on 1000 people the blast will kill 999 and wound 1 because that's it's limit
2) that's a fair point
3) yes and your not pumping Excalibur ultimate attack mana into the weapons being thrown or you'd pass out after 2

@Raineh Daze

[Wraithblade6]

I want to mention that leman Russ is the emperor's executioner. ...for a reason.