Toontown | The Guild's #1 Stop for Cartoon Discussion

[Shu]

South Park is all good.

@Dark Cloud

[Peppercorn]

twitter.com/thecartooncrave/status/14…

Have some cartoon history news you might've missed yesterday.

[canaryrose]

I feel like Netflix makes some awesome cartoons. A lot of the cable networks these days just make really, really shitty cartoons. Looking at you, Cartoon Network. Some of my favorites in the last couple of years have been She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, Carmen Sandiego, and The Dragon Prince. I've also been getting into Young Justice thanks to a couple of persistent RPers here and I really enjoy it!

Steven Universe was also really good seasons 2-4 (or 5?).

[Peppercorn]

I feel like Netflix makes some awesome cartoons. A lot of the cable networks these days just make really, really shitty cartoons. Looking at you, Cartoon Network. Some of my favorites in the last couple of years have been She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, Carmen Sandiego, and The Dragon Prince. I've also been getting into Young Justice thanks to a couple of persistent RPers here and I really enjoy it!

Steven Universe was also really good seasons 2-4 (or 5?).

@canaryrose

They've been doing pretty well for themselves, yeah. Kipo, Dragon Prince as you said, etc. The Jurassic World show is mostly solid, too, and it isn't as "kidified" as I would've thought it would be. I figured they would've 100% avoided mature themes (see: dinosaurs eating people, like in the films) but I was proven wrong.

[Fabricant451]

Put Fillmore on Disney+, you mouse asshole

Also put The Weekenders on there

[Dark Cloud]

Netflix's done one thing right. Castlevania, that's all that needs saying for that home run of a video game show. AND Oh fuck I cannot wait for Earthworm Jim's new show to air! Hyped af.

[Venus]

I've been on a Daria kick. I was too young to appreciate this show when it was at its prime, but now as an adult I relate to her so much it's crazy 😂❤

[Exit]

It's difficult for me to recall the last cartoon/animation that I've watched. I don't know if Arcane counts but that was amazing. So was Invincible on Amazon. I still try to keep up with RWBY although I don't remember much from the last season. Rick & Morty is always great but I've only ever seen single episodes isolated from the rest of the season. I've never sat down and watched it from start to finish so a lot of what's going on in the subplot is sometimes lost on me.

Oh and I'm not sure if this will count either but Space Jam: A New Legacy is a thing that decided it wanted to exist. I kind of made myself watch it recently. Having spent my Sunday mornings with my grandma watching Looney Tunes reruns (or her crush Walker, Texas Ranger stop a plane with a tractor beam) and having loved the original Space Jam, I might have been a little dissappointed.

Besides the above, I haven't consumed a whole lot of animation recently that wasn't strictly anime. I might catch snippets of things like The Simpsons or Family Guy accidentally but only because someone else is watching them.

@Nallore I'm enjoying the Legend of Vox Machina myself, but that might just be me and the novelty of seeing their D&D campaign come to life in an official animation. It's far from being the best show but I cannot deny the joy of watching pieces of their stream in a different medium or the the inside jokes peppered here and there. The animation work itself is fine. The story seems rushed or cut in a way that seems too fast, but I know that's a result of contraints given a limited run time and the insane amount of content they've had to cut down to fit into a few episodes. The voice acting is naturally amazing lol.

@Dark Cloud Castlevania was really good! Especially that first season. And second and fourth. Third not so much.

[SleepingSilence]

the movie that wasn't even bad or anything

@Fabricant451

I'd rather imagine that you straight up didn't watch it, if you think that movie didn't have any replusive content.

Or you're that one reviewer on youtube that went 'it's supposed to make you think, look at the cute blonde one'.

But in perfect fairness, there's plenty of other terrible decisions/programming Netflix has made over the years. Just happened to be the final nail that made sailing the high seas seem all the more appealing.

[Fabricant451]

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>
I'd rather imagine that you straight up didn't watch it, if you think that movie didn't have any replusive content.

@SleepingSilence

I did watch it. I just have the opinion that something can have objectionable material without it being an endorsement of said material. And my first thought on watching the movie was not "Wow these prepubescent girls are sexy and being framed as sexy". The movie is far more critical of what it supposedly glorifies considering the protagonist rejects it and the audience within the movie does as well. I dunno, I guess I could relate to a little girl with a different ethnic and cultural background than all her peers trying to fit in by appealing to the wrong sort of crowd and in the end embraces who she is and rejects the notion of trying to change to fit in and become much happier for it.

Anyway, I keep being told that Avatar the Last Airbender is good but I'm starting to think I was lied to.

[Exit]

I keep being told that Avatar the Last Airbender is good but I'm starting to think I was lied to.

@Fabricant451

I think it was great but I also think it gets progressively better so it might have to be an investment of time. Or maybe I feel that way because I invested the time and I feel obligated to like it.

But then I also like Avatar: The Legend of Korra too and that's received mixed reception so I don't know what to think anymore.

Have you finished it?

[Peppercorn]

@ the cuties discourse. Let's get back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Anyway, I keep being told that Avatar the Last Airbender is good but I'm starting to think I was lied to.

@Fabricant451

I tried getting into Avatar but ultimately I didn't really vibe with the writing. I love the aesthetic of the show, though. Elemental benders in an Asian setting is certainly cool.

[SleepingSilence]

Arcane was the best show to come out in a while. If you can get past all the clichés that piled on at once in the beginning. (And ignore how that scene of Vi/Powder's separation, that creates the whole future plot, is incredibly contrived at the very least.)

---

Something can have objectionable material, without it being an endorsement of said material.

@Fabricant451

Well, I could at least see that argument being used in fiction and animation. Say "Big Mouth", because at least it's not real...

But it would be like a snuff film that has rolling text of 'violence is bad' on it. And the person who gave it awards was subsequently convicted of being a serial killer. And the snuff film had thousands of 'tryout victims' going through the scenes dozens of times. Ya know. To find the best bare pieces of meat.

I digress. I don't want to think about this movie anymore. ^-^'

Anyway, I keep being told that Avatar the Last Airbender is good but I'm starting to think I was lied to.

@Fabricant451

I had the same thought about the Dragon Prince show on Netflix.

For some reason, I remember you talking about the Legend of Korra. Did you happen to watch that show first? Or am I confusing you with somebody else?

[mickilennial]

Didn't realize Cuties was an animated feature film. Thread creator wants people to move on to on topic discussion, so, do that.

[Fabricant451]

Have you finished it?

@Exit

I finished season 1, but it took me a bit because I was put off by the first couple of episodes and their wild tonal shifts. I didn't find myself compelled to watch beyond that despite everyone telling me that it gets 'even better'. That may be but I have the same response to that as I do when someone tells me "Yeah no this game gets good after 20 hours"

I tried getting into Avatar but ultimately I didn't really vibe with the writing. I love the aesthetic of the show, though. Elemental benders in an Asian setting is certainly cool.

@Peppercorn

My problem was its writing, largely. Like I know with cartoons people like to use the whole 'it's good...for a kids show!' but I've always been of the mind that something is good or bad regardless of audience in mind (with exceptions, I'm not about to be like "No, Little Einstein's is brilliant!') and Avatar's writing (at least in the first season, which is all I have context for) wasn't 'good for a kids show' or even 'good in general'. It was full of tonal shifts and obvious gags for the young crowd, but its lore was interesting enough. But lore and story aren't the same thing and if someone says otherwise ask them to explain the lore of Lord of the Rings and buzz them if they start talking about Frodo and Sam's wild adventure.

All everyone ever talked about was stuff that doesn't happen in the first season because the first season spends half its time doing episodic lore exploration (which were the episodes I liked) and then the other half being episodic adventures. But while watching the first season I kept being told the same thing, how good it gets, how Zuko has a redemption arc, how such and such and so and so and this and that and it's like yeah, that all sounds cool, but the first season felt trapped by its need to appeal to the younger Nickelodeon crowd.

I also suspect that many ATLA fans were young when it was airing and I was 16 and at the age where I was too cool and mature and old for dumb cartoons which is probably why my NickToon/TeenNick nostalgia consists of the Rugrats/Doug/Clarissa Explains It All/Rocko era through to just about As Told By Ginger 2004-ish or so. Except for CatDog. That was a mistake. And Rocket Power.

But yeah, I'm sure ATLA is fine but I gave it more than a fair shake (I feel) and just...didn't vibe with it.

For some reason, I remember you talking about the Legend of Korra. Did you happen to watch that show first? Or am I confusing you with somebody else?

@SleepingSilence

Nah, I never saw Korra. My experience with Korra was playing the real bad action game of it then hearing she and another girl held hands. I have been told I might like Korra because of my specific interests in shows where women get to punch people real good but those same people also told me I'd like Avatar the Last Airbender so I can't trust 'em

[mickilennial]

Avatar was very impactful, but you are not incorrect that the first season is generally inconsistent with a lot of tonal shifts. Avatar definitely succeeds the most in Book 2 and Book 3 where it feels the characters are growing up with the audience (and I'm your age Fab so I'm not sure that argument sticks its landing), which is a strength of the material. While watching one season is more than enough content, I do think its doing the show a disservice if you don't at least spend more time as the arcs get more mature and at times darker and more nuanced. It definitely does pacing a lot better than Korra or Dragon Prince and it does reward adult viewers well enough.

I think a large part that doesn't help with Avatar is that its reputation is rather inflated due to its influence and significance for [western] animation of that period of time.

[Exit]

I finished season 1, but it took me a bit because I was put off by the first couple of episodes and their wild tonal shifts.

@Fabricant451

Mhm. That identity crisis or when any show feels very episodic for idk... safety reasons. Makes the first season feel grindy like any of your '20 hours in' games. It's the same reason I could never complete the Star Wars: The Clone Wars animated series despite hearing similar praise about it improving dramatically over time.

And sure, it might be a shame that I'm missing out but then there's also more immediately enjoyable media for me to consume everywhere else. I definitely get it.

I think a large part that doesn't help with Avatar is that its reputation is rather inflated due to its influence and significance for [western] animation of that period of time.

@TGM

When during it's original run, watching it was frowned upon by most in my circle but now I'm hearing 'Uncle Iroh' in rap songs and seeing kids who are as old as I was back when I first watched it, vibe his tea drinking aesthetic. Very different times lol.

[SleepingSilence]

I didn't find myself compelled to watch beyond that despite everyone telling me that it gets 'even better'. That may be but I have the same response to that as I do when someone tells me "Yeah no, this game gets good after 20 hours."

My problem was its writing, largely. It was full of tonal shifts and obvious gags for the young crowd.

@Fabricant451

Off topic from your own opinion, but I was watching someone called "Southpaw" streaming Avatar. Where he (and those watching with him) were criticizing an episode about how the children cast of the show didn't understand the moral complexities of a weapon's merchant selling his wears to 'the bad guys'. (Like children were supposed to understand nuances in the first place.)

But when I see that kind of critique, in aims to knock something down a peg. My biggest question is "Well, what would you use to compare it with, that does it better?"

So back to your points. Can you think of a kids show where 'obvious gags for the young crowd' doesn't apply? Or can you think of a season one of a kids show that does its worldbuilding/lore better than Avatar? Please don't say Steven Universe or Adventure Time, I beg you.

Because I could even agree that the few least good episodes of Avatar are probably in Season One. (Plus, I also hate the 'it gets better later' defense.) So fair enough. But, I think Avatar shows "potential" pretty quickly.

Faster than any kids cartoon I've seen on Netflix, at the very least.

[Fabricant451]

So back to your points. Can you think of a kids show where 'obvious gags for the young crowd' doesn't apply? Or can you think of a season one of a kids show that does its worldbuilding/lore better than Avatar? Please don't say Steven Universe or Adventure Time, I beg you.

@SleepingSilence

Off the top of my head? No, because most cartoons aren't really serialized the way Avatar is, or I assume it becomes such. Also because I'm not super familiar with a lot of cartoons. I haven't seen Adventure Time and Steven Universe is a bad example anyway because its first season is like 50 episodes and only like 10 of them have any sort of lasting lore relevance. Gravity Falls maybe? But I say that having not seen Gravity Falls.

Most cartoons, and correct me if I'm wrong as this is absolutely not my area of expertise, tend to be more episodic in nature culminating in arcs near mid or season finales. But just because ATLA does its lore better than its peers doesn't mean I have to give it a pass for what I feel are its narrative shortcomings.

I don't expect a character like Aang to understand the moral complexities of war profiteering, but I would absolutely expect a character like Katara or Zuko to

[SleepingSilence]

Gravity Falls maybe? But I say that having not seen Gravity Falls.

@Fabricant451

I have. And I'd say it's 100% the most entertaining of the Modern Era. So give it a try. But no. (And Mable is basically a terrible, terrible character in terms of how she's written.) But that's neither here, nor there.

And the "story" doesn't even really kick in until its later seasons either. <- But that statement applies to almost every kids show I've seen. Hence why I wouldn't use "tone" as critique as to why I thought The Owl House was so mediocre. I'd use it's dialogue, character writing and episode plots to do that.

But yeah, 'comedy put there for kids to enjoy', is basically included in every kids/family/PG film, series, anime to ever exist.