[OOC] World in Revolution: 1861

[Pepperm1nts]

The Nexerus said
King William III doesn't necessarily all of Belgium. There's a reason the treaty specifically mentions that the status of Wallonia is pending.

All or half, it doesn't matter. It seems a bit out-of-character to let the Dutch have any part of Belgium. France is still strong enough to demand otherwise. If France was on the brink of destruction, and these were the Coalition's demands, then it'd make sense for France to agree. But France can still fight. They ought to dispute these demands. The Dutch have no right over even Flanders.

[So Boerd]

Why does France care who rules the Dutch speakers? Independent Wallonia keeps open the invasion route. France started warring due to Andorra so we left Andorra.

[Pepperm1nts]

Maybe the same reason it's against France's interest for Prussia to rule over German-speakers.

Among other reasons, of course.

[Ampharos]

I think France would be more interested in stalling Germany's foundation. Backing down now is essentially letting Prussia found a world power right on its doorstep.

[bigscreech]

Hmm and soo ends the western front and now puts the strain on Austria in the central front and Italian fronts. They'll most likely make peace and now opens up for a bloody war in the caucuses and Ottomans territory in Europe.

[So Boerd]

Ampharos said
I think France would be more interested in stalling Germany's foundation. Backing down now is essentially letting Prussia found a world power right on its doorstep.

Or you win and form a bigger world power for all Napoleon knows.

[Pepperm1nts]

So Boerd said
Or you win and form a bigger world power for all Napoleon knows.

Hence why I don't think France should have joined to begin with. But they did. So now their interests should be to prevent the Dutch from gaining any land in Belgium. It seems wrong to just be like "Yeah, okay, have everything you want!" when they can still oppose them.

[Dedonus]

So...a bunch of men died for no good reason now.

[So Boerd]

Pepperm1nts said
Hence why I don't think France should have joined to begin with. But they did. So now their interests should be to prevent the Dutch from gaining any land in Belgium. It seems wrong to just be like "Yeah, okay, have everything you want!" when they can still oppose them.

Because of Andorra. It's like they were neutral the whole time.

[The Nexerus]

Dedonus said
So...a bunch of men died for no good reason now.

Dutch, German, and Italian unity and sovereignty.

[Pepperm1nts]

The Nexerus said
Dutch, German, and Italian unity and sovereignty.

The Coalition wins, it's the Allies who are getting nothing out of this (except a lot of dead sons and fathers). The Prussians are a step closer to forming the German Empire, and the Dutch can now form Greater Netherlands. All the allies get is a bunch of dead people. Seriously, you should have kept fighting, France. Your move didn't just cost everyone the war, but will put you all at a severe disadvantage for (probably) the remainder of the RP. The Coalition has practically won the game.

[AegonVI]

Pepperm1nts said
The Coalition wins, it's the Allies who are getting nothing out of this (except a lot of dead sons and fathers). The Prussians are a step closer to forming the German Empire, and the Dutch can now form Greater Netherlands. All the allies get is a bunch of dead people. Seriously, you should have kept fighting, France. Your move didn't just cost everyone the war, but will put you all at a severe disadvantage for (probably) the remainder of the RP. The Coalition has practically won the game.

Hmm... This throws a major wrench into my plans moving forward... Someone should form a third (major) German state that I can take over.

[NarcolepticSailor]

Pepperm1nts said
The Coalition wins, it's the Allies who are getting nothing out of this (except a lot of dead sons and fathers). The Prussians are a step closer to forming the German Empire, and the Dutch can now form Greater Netherlands. All the allies get is a bunch of dead people. Seriously, you should have kept fighting, France. Your move didn't just cost everyone the war, but will put you all at a severe disadvantage for (probably) the remainder of the RP. The Coalition has practically won the game.

There isn't a game to win, there also isn't really a whole lot we actually want in a peace deal with the allies in the first place. It also doesn't mean that the current alliance that the Coalition formed will even last much longer after the war. None of us have any interest in trying to form a giant alliance to dictate control of Europe. The main reason I fought this war besides returning Italian land to my control was to stop the giant British, French, Austrian, Ottoman alliance. From the start of the game that alliance was basically stalling the progress of this NRP.

[Ampharos]

Pepperm1nts said
The Coalition wins, it's the Allies who are getting nothing out of this (except a lot of dead sons and fathers). The Prussians are a step closer to forming the German Empire, and the Dutch can now form Greater Netherlands. All the allies get is a bunch of dead people. Seriously, you should have kept fighting, France. Your move didn't just cost everyone the war, but will put you all at a severe disadvantage for (probably) the remainder of the RP. The Coalition has practically won the game.

Yeah, France just gave Prussia the German Empire. That's not exactly the game, but it's still a major blow to the balance of power.

AegonVI said
Hmm... This throws a major wrench into my plans moving forward... Someone should form a third (major) German state that I can take over.

This was the idea. France and I would have taken Hanover and the Western half of Prussia and re-established something similar to the Confederation of the Rhine or the Kingdom of Westphalia.

Had Russia caved, we would have also carved out a Polish state from Congress Poland and the bit of Polish land in Austria.

On top of that, had we forced Italy into something more than a white peace, I would have demanded Lombardy and then established Veneto-Lombardy vassal state between the two of us.

The exact borders were still up for discussion, but it was what we were discussing.

[So Boerd]

NarcolepticSailor said
There isn't a game to win, there also isn't really a whole lot we actually want in a peace deal with the allies in the first place. It also doesn't mean that the current alliance that the Coalition formed will even last much longer after the war. None of us have any interest in trying to form a giant alliance to dictate control of Europe. The main reason I fought this war besides returning Italian land to my control was to stop the giant British, French, Austrian, Ottoman alliance. From the start of the game that alliance was basically stalling the progress of this NRP.

Basically.

[So Boerd]

AegonVI said
Hmm... This throws a major wrench into my plans moving forward... Someone should form a third (major) German state that I can take over.

Portugal?

[Pepperm1nts]

AegonVI said
Someone should form a third (major) German state that I can take over.

Hey, those are my plans! I wanted to form a third major German state.

NarcolepticSailor said

You're right, there isn't a game to win. I'm usually the first to say that, and like to remind people that it's about telling a good story, not winning. But I don't agree that you're "not getting much" from the current treaty. Sure, you could have asked for a lot more (and France may have agreed :P), but you got all you wanted.

[Ampharos]

NarcolepticSailor said
From the start of the game that alliance was basically stalling the progress of this NRP.

Okay, I think we're pretty civil, but I don't appreciate this accusation. What does this mean?

[NarcolepticSailor]

Once the ACW is settled and if Aegon loses is he even allowed to just switch to another nation or does he get sent back in the queue?

Ampharos said
Okay, I think we're pretty civil, but I don't appreciate this accusation. What does this mean?

There was a collective alliance throughout the entirety of Europe and a council that basically wouldn't allow any war in Europe at all and if one started, they'd get dog-piled be all GPs. I didn't think it'd need much of an explanation as to how this could prove detrimental to the development of the NRP, it'd make everything way too quiet at a time period where such a thing shouldn't even be possible. There should be conflict in Europe that doesn't automatically draw everyone into the pile, there should be isolated wars between a few powers, but not all of them.

[Rare]

Pepperm1nts said
The Coalition wins, it's the Allies who are getting nothing out of this (except a lot of dead sons and fathers). The Prussians are a step closer to forming the German Empire, and the Dutch can now form Greater Netherlands. All the allies get is a bunch of dead people. Seriously, you should have kept fighting, France. Your move didn't just cost everyone the war, but will put you all at a severe disadvantage for (probably) the remainder of the RP. The Coalition has practically won the game.

^^^^ The Aliies should not give up so earily. They got most of the Coalition's trade block.