The Red Seelie

Fate/Eternum

@VitaVitaAR@PKMNB0Y

Alright I've decided that it might be best to change my servant application from Semiramis to somebody else. Since while semiramis is fine and all, The fact she is unable to leave her hanging gardens would make interaction with other servants extremely rare.

So may I subtract my Semiramis from the RP and replace her with a different servant more apt at walking around the cities.

Fate/Eternum

@KoL

I did put that as my end point a few posts ago. And I wholly agree with this.

Fate/Eternum

Enter, The Greatest Inventor!

Drakos Estate; Summoning Chamber

Standing there in a neutral posture clad in beautifully coloured robes of red blues and golds, blinking softly as if pulled from a lulling dream straight into the present, the mind of the thinker began to whir. Passively looking down at herself for a moment, looking behind herself to check everything was in order. Gently flexing each one of her fingers as if relishing the feeling of her body and looking at her gauntlet that clutched an ornate looking staff. Before breathing out once feeling the air moving in her lungs. Exhaling the small sigh as she looked up and smiled at her master. Stunning blue eyes that could only be conceived of as beautiful gazed at her master in a manner that seemed to analysing the character of the woman before her. All this occurring within a few seconds following the summoning before servant had even opened her mouth to speak.

“Nice to meet you master~ I’m the Caster servant, Leonardo Da Vinci and from now on I’ll be Da Vinci-chan only for you~” She said her voice acutely feminine with a tone that seemed deliberately womanly, Da Vinci’s words accompanied by a flawless smile that could only invoke images of her most famous piece of art.

Fate/Eternum

@KoL

I mean we are talking about a topic that requires dragging up every single niche part of fates lore, its in hiders now.

*I forgot the case files was airing as an anime currently*

Fate/Eternum

@Raineh Daze

Im not a fan of someone saying 'your wrong' in a rather rude manner after I just wanted to stop this entirely so...

Shall we drop the entire sequential timeline then?

the timeline of the world, as put by the fate wiki

The time period beginning with the genesis of the Earth until the beginning of the Common Era around 0 AD is referred to as the Age of Gods , during which the world followed laws based not on physics but on Mystery. This period is marked by a greater proliferation of Phantasmal Species and greater interaction between gods and mortals. This is the age of heroes and mythology, when rules of mankind and the laws of the world were different right down to the very fundamental physics of reality itself, but this period ended many years ago. Even Magecraft itself is described as being closer to Magic in this era and FSN Caster's abilities reinforce this concept. The currently-revealed Second Age of Gods eventually transitioned into the Age of Man due to three major events.

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First event:
Originally, gods existed in physical form as manifestations of nature itself, and ruled the Earth and its civilizations. The Deterioration began with the invasion of Sefar in 12,000 BC. After Sefar destroyed the majority of the Earth and a massive number of gods, she was finally beaten back by a Holy Sword forged in the core of the planet; however, due to the damage done by Sefar, the influence and power of the gods declined whereas those of humanity grew. The gods slowly began to lose their physical forms and eventually could only walk on the Earth by possessing compatible humans.

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Second Event:

Realizing that if the weakening of the gods were to continue the Age of Gods itself would end, the gods of Mesopotamia created Gilgamesh around 2,600 BC as the keystone to connect the gods and humans. However, Gilgamesh unexpectedly rebelled against the gods and encouraged the complete separation of the gods and the humans. Due to this, the decline of the gods was accelerated and the gods lost their powers and became Divine Spirits, forced to exist in a higher dimension only able to observe the Earth without directly interfering. Later, the demise of Solomon the King of Magic accelerated the decline of Mystery.

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Third Event:
A trigger occuring at around 700 BC

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Age of man: Begins a 0AD
Around 0 AD, the Age of Gods ended entirely and the population of humanity grew explosively. Because the Earth obeys the law of the most prosperous species on its surface, the rules of the world were completely changed from one that obeyed Mystery to one that obeyed physics. The Phantasmal Species ceded the Earth's surface to humans and moved to the Reverse Side of the World, where Mystery still thrives.

The current age is identified as the Age of Man, where Mysteries such as magecraft are dwindling in favor of science. The Five Magics were born in this age.

a mystery spoiler

Finally, This is what the wiki states on Mystery.
a sliver of power of many different types that comes from the Root. It is the source of all supernatural phenomena such as Magecraft or ESP, and beings such as True Ancestors, Dead Apostles, Servants, Spiritual Bodies, as well as Phantasmal Species show signs of Mystery Mystery accumulates over time and grows stronger with age.

Mystery is on the decline in the age of man, Allow me to bring up another example of mysteries decline with the character of Gray and the item that is the lance Rhongomyniad

The ability to use it has been passed down in a line descended from the relatives of King Arthur, and it is currently held by Gray. Her Mystic Code "Add" only existed as a temporary seal to stop the degradation of the weapon's Mystery in the first place.

According to your logic the lance should only get stronger. But its actually degrading over time. This is what the age of man does to mystery. The Lance can't retain its power anymore, so a seal has to exist to prevent the degradation. That is a pretty sorry state for the worlds mystery.

TLDR: Fate has so many writers it contradicts itself.

Fate/Eternum

@Raineh Daze
I know of that, you might also know I brought up king solomon which was a more important example since he was on the turning point of the age of gods and age of man.

The worlds foundation was entirely changed by its dominant species being man. Changing the foundation from Mystery to Physics is what lead to the phantasmal species leaving the world. As we know. Mystery is in decline because the foundation of the world shifted. Mages now are incapable of performing 'magic' and are stuck with mage craft due to mystery being a fraction of what it was.

Showing magic to the world whoms very foundation is antithetical to mystery would be the equivalent of spreading mystery too thin making it nearly useless.
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Disregarding human nature. Disregarding issues with the melting pot of servants. Disregarding even the fact that certain servants are naturally antithetical to eachother. Revealing Magecraft to the entire world is a detriment to the art. Since if we agree that mystery is a limited supply.

We must remember that Shirou emiya for some goddamn reason could use his nervous system as a means to use magecraft (He literally thought he had to create magic circuits whenever he used the art). He wasn't using his natural circuits at this time. He had turned his nerves into a means to cast magic. Meaning if Shirou, the 'average' boy can do that. What is to stop, hundreds or thousands of people from doing that. Which would draw heavily on mysteries supply.

Magecraft becomes common knowledge - Kiritsugus basic teaching method would likely be replicable by other mages, also common knowledge - A person with no knowledge in magecraft learns it the wrong way like Shirou did.

Suddenly you'll have new familys popping up that discovered their natural circuits or people turning their nerves into circuits (dangerous but possible)

Mystery spreads too thin in this scenario also.

TLDR: The World of Fate/ fails into a complete and utter poltiical and mechanical mess when we apply real-world logic to it (Which I seem like a complete and utter fool for doing so I admit). So for the sake of everyone I'm just going to stop and just go with the flow.

This was at least a insightful look into this worlds workings at least for me at least. So thanks everyone.

Fate/Eternum

@Raineh Daze

The Age of Gods is directly tied to an abundance of 'Mystery'

The Age of man is literally a result of mystery's decline. Where magic and mysticism is now replaced with technology and Science, The Death of king solomon for instance accelerated the decline of mystery.

Even in the modern era mystery is slowly and inevitably dying out as science develops as the worlds foundation is now on physics, there is a reason why Mages are trying to recover what was once possible in the past.

The greatest example of mystery against science is reinforcement being unable to work on a firearm. It is simply impossible to reinforce a firearm with magic due to the fact that the firearm rejects mystery due to being a complex mechanism of science

This means that Mystery = Magic remains true as Mystery is the fundamental power that powers magecraft which even then is inferior to the magics of old because of the decline in mystery.

Thus, it is wholly likely that the moment you make magecraft common knowledge any mystery it would hold would rapidly decline. Because common knowledge and understanding is a detriment to mystery's existence.

Lets take a look at another Noble phantasm for evidence, Since they are in this RP. Thomas Edisons WFD, exists to erode mystery itself which is why it is an anti-populace NP. Since it shows the technology of man performing things that were once only possible with magic.

Again this could all be handwaved away if that Chaldea used that massive stockpile of grails they somehow acquired or if someone won a the fuyuki holy grail war. And simply wished the world to be this way. Which is what happened in reqieum.

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the TLDR is that if it were to exist in this capacity. People would make their own summoning systems since all goverments would want a piece of the pie they'd likely round up their mages to get working on a system.

Im just saying that logically without even bringing up that such a high concentration of heroic spirits would cause Alaya and Gaia to have a seizure

Also in fate requieum, the plot hook is that the protag summons the last servant into the world. 'I'm a death god - my job is to kill Servants." The girl who was separated from paradise meets the final Servant summoned in the world'

So it seems that even in reqieum there is such a thing as going too far.

Humanity is known for not taking things sitting down, lets say you built a superweapon tomorrow that lets you destroy the world, you either become a tyrant suppressing rebellion or watch as someone else build the same superweapon or destroys yours.

Final point:
Just give a working explanation for why this massive reveal isn't causing a huge decline in mystery. Or just say its a grail wish. Both work!

Fate/Eternum

@VitaVitaAR

Again the leylines wouldn't even sustain such a place because mystery would be dying. The only way this even works is if fusang is as a result of a grail wish and is thus exists in a space that is so choked full of mystery that anything occuring inside of it works independently.

Command seals function as absolutes, not even Gilgamesh can resist them, the only reason one wouldn't use a command seal on gilgamesh is once that command is carried out, gilgamesh would murder you immediately after due to his ego. However even Saber who showed a strong will, was still forced to destroy the Grail, the entire thing she strived for. So Command seals can force a servant to go against their own will and deploy an NP.

Who watchs the watchmen
When you have servants policing themselves, at what point do the masters become irreverent as anything more then cattle, since its obvious at that point the only thing stopping servants is other servants. At which point is it ethical to even have command seals in that society.

to answer the last one
And technically the way to start an arms race against servants is to set up your own servant summoning method. Which eventaully makes fusang wholly irrelevent as a hub of servants.

Though there is a really easy response to this and that is to say Fusang isn't the only place where servants are, but it is the only place where they are allowed to roam freely due to its remoteness. Because anywhere else would have massive restrictions on servants. But I wouldn't find it strange if servants were allowed small trips to their homeland on good behavior (evil aligned servants aren't allowed to leave fusang for instance)

(and of course we'll just ignore mystery as a sort of stopgap measure to handwave the world knowing)

Im just trying to wrap my head around Fusangs place on a global level that is all.

Fate/Eternum

@VitaVitaAR

1. Again, that is still not the entire world, and likely anyone that got involved would have to go through an immense debrief process. This is still around a maximum of 1 million more people knowing compared to 6 billion. The Difference is massive. The reason the cover up had to happen was to preserve magus society because once you blow the lid on that, 95% of the world wants your neck.

2. Fate Requieum has a unique plot hook that makes it plausible which is Everybody has a grail meaning everyone has a constant source of mystery right near them. Which would offset the knowledge of servants and magic. This doesn't appear to be the case here so the reqieum explanation doesn't exactly work.

3. Nukes can't fire themselves as you say, but servants can. And a single nuke doesn't annilhilate the entire world. But Gil can. The difference between these two things are too great. And a reminder. Mutually assured destruction only works when everyone has nukes. Not everyone has servants in this case so yes. This woudl cause riots since fusang is the only place with these super humans.

People don't live in fear of nukes because everyone has them, not everyone has a Gilgamesh for instance.

4. Fusang is still a security risk to many nations wellbeing, due to what it is and the servant calibur. Someone could summon Karna. What are you going to do to a man whom is invulnerable to 95% of all harm. Shoot him? Theres also ethnic issues with servants but thats beside the point.

5.
Fusang itself is a huge geopolitcal issue because if this is the only place that has these things called servants. How on earth are we gonna defend our selfs (says country X not currently in the united nation)

This is how you start a millitary arms race.

Fate/Eternum

@VitaVitaAR

The council of the united nations did not reveal that information to the rest of the world, meaning that revealing it to the united nations at most is revealing it to just the upper council. It would be top level government secrets at that point meaning that mystery is still maintained. There is a reason why there was such a huge fallout and coverup after the events of the part 1 of the singularity.

Reminder that Chaldea is for all intensive purposes STILL a secret organisation, especially due to the fact of what the CHALDEAS system is, any companies it has relation to are either under false pretense. E.g pretending to be something else. Or only the upper levels of those company know. This is still billions of less people then the entire world. So mystery is unaffected

Mystery is not negated in FGO, in fact many things still use mystery as an explanation for their potency.

2. Riots would likely never end considering these are servants that could take out entire armies by themselves as all of them are superhuman. Even the weakest one can kill several men without a scratch. Knowing that the magus population is less then 5% of the entire world. This would cause a inhuman amount of civil unrest for generations.

This is only worsened by the fact that world-buster servants exist like Gilgamesh which if public knowledge of that exists would likely cause many nations to live in fear of the man that can end the world in a single instant if he so tried. This creates a cold-war scenario where likely the nations would want to eliminate such powerful servants. Because nobody is going to get a good nights sleep if they knew a kid with three command seals could wake up tomorrow with a world cracker and have a bad day that results in the entire world going boom

3.
Besides the logistical problem of the mystery being completely ruined by this island bringing attention to it. Setting up an island state as an independent nation of servants, while also letting servants exist in such close proximity to each other, when most of these servants (logically) would want to return to their homelands. Would cause such a massive war of culture. But that isn't the main issue.

The main issue is painting a huge target. The nations of the world don't have servants which are stronger then a nuke. but this one place has hundreds of them. How can you as the next leader of your country assure national security when say... Arash could walk into your city the next day and stella the entire thing to the ground?

Tidbit: Elementary my dear (sherlock holmes NP) that solves all mysterys is anti-world because of what it does to mystery (in a magic sense), which means Mystery is very much a key factor still.