What's Bothering You?

[Ferret]

Everybody's got annoying stuff happening that brings them down, maybe if we all talk about it, we can make it better! So whats bothering you?

[Zaresto]

Feminism and Religion.

[Mtntopview]

That this fish:

can look like this (on the surface):

[Gekidami]

"My family was killed by raiders"

[Gwazi Magnum]

Zaresto said
Feminism and Religion.

You took the words right out of my mouth... :P

[Ferret]

Magic Magnum said
You took the words right out of my mouth... :P

I never really understood the whole hate for organized religion thing, I mean I am in no way religious, but to alot of people its all they have. It gives huge peace of mind to people that are experiencing massive grief or loss. I suppose its near impossible to explain spirituality and blind faith to someone who has yet to find a need for it. Of course there are the typical protests against it such as the anti-homosexual laws or female ownership ect, but the holy passages of whatever religion you choose was probably written so long ago that it might as well of been in a different universe. Assholes are going to be assholes no matter what median they choose to express it through. I'm not claiming their hasn't been huge atrocities done in the name of religion in the past, and present, but to shun a massive portion of human culture is crazy in my opinion.

These are just the minor opinions of an over-tired ferret. I understand how controversial and personal topics on religion can be, so the last thing I want is a flame war

[Gwazi Magnum]

Ferret said I never really understood the whole hate for organized religion thing

No problem. I get how being annoyed and disliking religion can anger or confuse a lot of people, even those not religious themselves.

Ferret said I mean I am in no way religious, but to a lot of people its all they have. It gives huge peace of mind to people that are experiencing massive grief or loss.

That's just not healthy though, for the only thing you have is blind faith in something the world has created at least tens of thousands of versions of it, all of which claims to be the one and only true God or religion.

Ferret said I suppose its near impossible to explain spirituality and blind faith to someone who has yet to find a need for it.

Oh I get it, I was Christian for most of my life.
It's having grown up Christian that helps fuel my reasons for disliking Religion.

Ferret said Of course there are the typical protests against it such as the anti-homosexual laws or female ownership ect, but the holy passages of whatever religion you choose was probably written so long ago that it might as well of been in a different universe.

To honestly consider one self part of a Religion, you should be reading and obeying the Bible of said Religion.
To not do so... Well then you're ignoring the entire religion and honestly shouldn't call yourself a member of that Religion in the first place.

So with that leaving those who actually do follow the Bible, most religions tell their followers that they're God's word is law.
That God is all knowing and infinite.

I makes sense for the rules man put down to change over time, we're only men. We learn, we adapt, we change.
But for what God says to change? If he does change his mind later one he is either sadistic, or he isn't all knowing cause he had to change his word in the first place.
Also even Religion's like Christianity aren't fully clear as to if the Old Testament is to be disregarded or not.
That's just one possible interpretation of what Jesus said, and it's the interpretation most religious people choose to take cause it let's them dodge what would otherwise be a very inconvenient bullet.
Even then though, the New Testament has more than enough to tear apart with including women not being allowed to speak outside of their home.

You want to look at a Religion and go "This scripture's are too old, we should ignore them and do something else" be my guest. But stop calling yourself a member of that religion, cause you're outright disobeying it at that point.

Ferret said Assholes are going to be assholes no matter what median they choose to express it through.

This is true. But let's put this in another perspective.
Let's say a School put a rule in saying "You are allowed to pick on, bully, harass and abuse Girls, Gays, Blacks, Jews, Asians etc.". Would you stand for it and say "Well Assholes will be assholes may this rule be in or not?". Any half-moral person wouldn't allow a rule that outright promotes the harm and bullying of others, even if humanity has some asshole's that would act that way even if they weren't allowed to.

Ferret said I'm not claiming their hasn't been huge atrocities done in the name of religion in the past, and present, but to shun a massive portion of human culture is crazy in my opinion.

Not liking Religion is not the same as shunning anyone who is Religious.

As far as Religion vs Non-Religious even goes, it's normally the Religious people shunning the non-religious (or religious people of another religion) for not believing in their God.
Non-Religious normally just show a disliking to Religion, disagree with it and tell them to stop trying to force their religion on others.
Sometimes creating atheist groups and such as a place of acceptance cause so many religious people won't accept them.

Ferret said These are just the minor opinions of an over-tired ferret. I understand how controversial and personal topics on religion can be, so the last thing I want is a flame war

I'd rather avoid flame war's too honestly is possible.
But I'm not going to let the fear of a flame war prevent me from being open and honest about my opinion if people ask about it.

[Zaresto]

Ferret said
I never really understood the whole hate for organized religion thing, I mean I am in no way religious, but to alot of people its all they have. It gives huge peace of mind to people that are experiencing massive grief or loss. I suppose its near impossible to explain spirituality and blind faith to someone who has yet to find a need for it. Of course there are the typical protests against it such as the anti-homosexual laws or female ownership ect, but the holy passages of whatever religion you choose was probably written so long ago that it might as well of been in a different universe. Assholes are going to be assholes no matter what median they choose to express it through. I'm not claiming their hasn't been huge atrocities done in the name of religion in the past, and present, but to shun a massive portion of human culture is crazy in my opinion.

These are just the minor opinions of an over-tired ferret. I understand how controversial and personal topics on religion can be, so the last thing I want is a flame war

One of my main problems with religion is that almost all religions naturally inhibit people. By assuring yourself that there is some sort of afterlife where all your friends and family go to after you die, you devalue the one life you have here on Earth. Instead of accepting that a loved one has died and you yourself growing as a result, you lie to yourself by saying that they're are in some afterlife, and that you can join them one day. Instead of cherishing the life you have here on Earth, you see it as a gateway to some other existence that, in itself, has no real purpose. You see the problem. It's not that I automatically hate those who are religious, it is that I wish the best for them and want them to be better.

[Zaresto]

Stupid double post glitch.

[Ferret]

Thanks for taking the effort to fully explain yourself magnum. I always explain to myself that the huge hate towards religion on the internet (not saying that it's on this forum, but in general) due to the fact that atheist, agnostic or whatever people far outweigh theists on the internet for the most part, atleast on sites I frequent, and it's actually the first time a non-theist group of people have been in the majority and they feel the need for a sort of payback for all the prejudices they experienced as the minority.

Zaresto, thanks aswell for explaining yourself, I see where you coming from but personally I Still believe the thought of heaven to be a very healthy motivator in life, I'm going to pull from personal experiences, which is kind of unfair as it makes it harder for you to counter-point my argument with me going "Are you calling my mother a liar" or something. But the personal story actually does regard my mother, when her father died a few years ago she was absolutely devastated, she was literally a shell of her old self. And I think the one thing that pulled her out of it was the prospect of him being in a better place now. She commonly mentions to us how he is always "looking out for her" in the forms of little trivial bits of good luck, should it be a free parking space, a safe drive home on frosty roads, or a machine giving back extra change, just stupid little positive things that are very easy to ignore. But I believe that the thought of someone looking out for you, just doing their best to make life a little easier for you is such an attractive and mood altering thing, because now, whenever she is in a bad mood, she will try her hardest look for any little bit of positivity in her life. And I can say from personal experience that depression starts when you ignore the positive and focus on the negative

[Gwazi Magnum]

Ferret said Thanks for taking the effort to fully explain yourself magnum. I always justify the huge hate towards religion on the internet (not saying that it's on this forum, but in general) due to the fact that atheist, agnostic or whatever people far outweigh theists on the internet for the most part, at least on sites I frequent, and it's actually the first time a non-theist group of people have been in the majority and they feel the need for a sort of payback for all the prejudices they experienced as the minority.

That's a terrible reason to be against Religion though... :/
Hell I imagine it's reasoning like that is part of why me and Zaresto also listed Feminism as an annoyance.
Cause they got to the point where women are equal (They still lack equality in some areas, but to the point it equals out to the areas where men lack rights) and are basically now turning into this movement that hates men and aims for female superiority.

I believe such a curve of the discriminated becoming the discriminator's is a natural process that seems to happen when equality is aimed for right before real equality tends to kick in. But that doesn't mean I support people who do act that way.

Ferret said Zaresto, thanks aswell for explaining yourself, I see where you coming from but personally I Still believe the thought of heaven to be a very healthy motivator in life, I'm going to pull from personal experiences, which is kind of unfair as it makes it harder for you to counter-point my argument with me going "Are you calling my mother a liar" or something. But the personal story actually does regard my mother, when her father died a few years ago she was absolutely devastated, she was literally a shell of her old self. And I think the one thing that pulled her out of it was the prospect of him being in a better place now. She commonly mentions to us how he is always "looking out for her" in the forms of little trivial bits of good luck, should it be a free parking space, a safe drive home on frosty roads, or a machine giving back extra change, just stupid little positive things that are very easy to ignore. But I believe that the thought of someone looking out for you, just doing their best to make life a little easier for you is such an attractive and mood altering thing, because now, whenever she is in a bad mood, she will try her hardest look for any little bit of positivity in her life. And I can say from personal experience that depression starts when you ignore the positive and focus on the negative

Ok this is confusing...

You just said above that you defend discrimination against Religious people, but now you're defending Religious Logic o.O

As for the case of your mother, there is nothing she can do that prove's that those small fortunes of luck were God. Not anymore than someone can prove that rabbit's feet and four leaf clover's are lucky and cause these things. She's basically looking at random good things that happen, lacks an explanation and then just fit's God in there. And also I have a question, when something bad happens to her does she also blame God for it? For example, stuck in traffic, vending machine eats her change etc.

Also not being Religious is not ignoring the positive and looking at the negative.
It simply means you do not believe in a God, there is no proof or evidence that makes you believe in a God.
In fact there are many cases of people becoming less depressed after giving up Religion, cause they no longer feel as if they have a set/sealed fate, that they have power to change it.
People realize if they want things to get better they need to go out and do it themselves, not let God do it for them. They take the effort to get out there and help make their own lives better which ultimately makes them happier.

[AlienBastard]

The fact i'm not sleeping or studying and instead brain storming and doodling aliens.

[Gwynbleidd]

Magic Magnum said listed Feminism as an annoyance.Cause they got to the point where women are equal (They still lack equality in some areas, but to the point it equals out to the areas where men lack rights) and are basically now turning into this movement that hates men and aims for female superiority.

Hmm. I disagree massively with this statement, however, I'm not sure if I'm ready to go on a huge discussion about it lol. We could make a separate topic, but for now I'll post here.

In the case of modern feminism…

1) You may have your members of the group who distort the actual goals of said group. This does not make the whole of feminism a group of women looking for female superiority. This is just false. That's like me pointing at atheists who harm religious people and saying atheists are out for complete atheist superiority.

2) As you pointed out yourself there are still aspects of inequality left for women. I'd also point out that places where men get shafted are due to certain inequalities for women and the way we view things (gender roles, specifically). Also, the biggest form of inequality for women is not necessarily these concrete things, but it is social inequality that is systemic within our culture.

Now, to the points of religion. I don't like religious zealotry, I believe we can all agree on that, maybe? However, you seem to be striving to make the point that a religious person should not enforce their views on others. Well, that has to work both ways. It is the religious person's freedom of choice to believe what they believe. It is the responsibility of both believer and non-believer alike to coexist.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Dark Wind said
Hmm. I disagree massively with this statement, however, I'm not sure if I'm ready to go on a huge discussion about it lol. We could make a separate topic, but for now I'll post here. In the case of modern feminism…1) You may have your members of the group who distort the actual goals of said group. This does not make the whole of feminism a group of women looking for female superiority. This is just false. That's like me pointing at atheists who harm religious people and saying atheists are out for complete atheist superiority. 2) As you pointed out yourself there are still aspects of inequality left for women. I'd also point out that places where men get shafted are due to certain inequalities for women and the way we view things (gender roles, specifically). Also, the biggest form of inequality for women is not necessarily these concrete things, but it is social inequality that is systemic within our culture. Now, to the points of religion. I don't like religious zealotry, I believe we can all agree on that, maybe? However, you seem to be striving to make the point that a religious person should not enforce their views on others. Well, that has to work both ways. It is the religious person's freedom of choice to believe what they believe. It is the responsibility of both believer and non-believer alike to coexist.

First off, glad to see you finally on the New Guild Dark Wind :)

In regards to Feminism. I agree that there are still some good feminist out there. But the amount of female doninancy sort of thinking is outright rampant in some areas. Also men have to face many cultural stigmas and discrimination too. For example, do you know that a common fear of women in ECE is letting men change an infants diaper out of fear of said child being sexually abused?

As for Religion. No one here is saying that atheists have a right to force their belief on others either. We're simply saying religious people also shouldn't have said right. While also noting our own personal disliking of Religion.

[ApocalypticaGM]

Magic Magnum said
First off, glad to see you finally on the New Guild Dark Wind :)In regards to Feminism. I agree that there are still some good feminist out there. But the amount of male doninancy sort of thinking is outright rampant in some areas. Also men have to face many cultural stigmas and discrimination too. For example, do you know that a common fear of women in ECE is letting men change an infants diaper out of fear of said child being sexually abused?As for Religion. No one here is saying that atheists have a right to force their belief on others either. We're simply saying religious people also shouldn't have said right. While also noting our own personal disliking of Religion.

You said still some good feminists out there. I think the vantage point may be effecting the overall status of feminism in the modern day. Obviously there are a bunch of extreme perspectives that do more blaming and shaming than actually identifying systemic issues and addressing them -- that's the way of America-- but I'd challenge that this bunch is likely a minority. The fact is feminists working to create change can be loud when necessary, as they should be to make issues known, yet are also likely doing more work behind the scenes pushing proposals and trying to change laws. Groups like Pussy Riot aren't as common here because our oppressive issues are subtle, though pervasive. It still requires a level of theatrics to push awareness though. The case you used about the diaper changing sounds a lot like a minority of feminists who've, honestly, probably had horrible experiences leading to this fear. I wouldn't say their experiences are invalid, but yes, they're generalizing we're all aware.

Religion can be positively fulfilling or not. Nothing to do with faith, more about exploration of self and our relationship to the world. Much scripture is focused to meeting an entity separate from ourselves rather than the inward looks a great many do push across faiths. I am speaking of course about Christianity here, where it's constantly said not to judge, to look into yourself for truth, to find the Kingdom of Heaven within yourself, and yet some people still push this idea of being best damned apostle. Yeah, I'd mark that as an annoyance too. I'm a Universalist who has deep respect for Judeo-Christianity, deep, deep respect from my studies of it, and I find that competitive thing highly irritating. The relationship is between self and world. It's grounding. If you're feeling superior to others and separated from the rest, there may well be something wrong.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

I find it quite amusing a few people have suddenly stopped partaking in role plays with me admitting my gender. May not be to do with that, may well be indeed. But that's by the by, it's just sad.

[Ferret]

Scotsman, I read your post "Who I am" and I am wondering if whether or not you have considered a sex change in the future. When you stated that your own body disgusted you it upset me so much, a life long friend of mine recently completed his female-to-male operation and the transformation was incredible, not the actual physical change but his personality became so much better, seemed so much more relaxed. I just wanted to know because I feel that everyone should love the body they are in.

[EllfenBrofis]

I'm annoyed with the fact that my seat in my computer class that I picked at the beginning of the year has just been randomly taken over by a 'friend' of mine. She's all like "Its just a SEAT" and I'm sorry but I am EXTREMELY territorial and once my spot is being taken over by someone else it pisses me off beyond all hell. She tried telling me how she 'needed' the spot but she logs off to go to lunch so therefore it shouldn't be a problem for her to move one computer over so I can have my cubical back (we use them and put pictures to customize our space, kinda like showing who sits there and all) and I have my Gamzee Makara picture up on the wall and it drives me nuts that I can't even look at him because of her. Hopefully I can get it back by tomorrow, I'm gonna speak to my teacher about it because she told me that she'd move once her other friend got her seat back from getting repairs done to her computer, well she DIDN'T move sooo Imma have to fix it with the teacher. Might loose a friend over it but OH FRIKKIN WELL she's not that close to me anyway and this is the last chance I have given her.

[Gwazi Magnum]

ShonHarris said
You said still some good feminists out there. I think the vantage point may be effecting the overall status of feminism in the modern day. Obviously there are a bunch of extreme perspectives that do more blaming and shaming than actually identifying systemic issues and addressing them -- that's the way of America-- but I'd challenge that this bunch is likely a minority. The fact is feminists working to create change can be loud when necessary, as they should be to make issues known, yet are also likely doing more work behind the scenes pushing proposals and trying to change laws. Groups like Pussy Riot aren't as common here because our oppressive issues are subtle, though pervasive. It still requires a level of theatrics to push awareness though. The case you used about the diaper changing sounds a lot like a minority of feminists who've, honestly, probably had horrible experiences leading to this fear. I wouldn't say their experiences are invalid, but yes, they're generalizing we're all aware. Religion can be positively fulfilling or not. Nothing to do with faith, more about exploration of self and our relationship to the world. Much scripture is focused to meeting an entity separate from ourselves rather than the inward looks a great many do push across faiths. I am speaking of course about Christianity here, where it's constantly said not to judge, to look into yourself for truth, to find the Kingdom of Heaven within yourself, and yet some people still push this idea of being best damned apostle. Yeah, I'd mark that as an annoyance too. I'm a Universalist who has deep respect for Judeo-Christianity, deep, deep respect from my studies of it, and I find that competitive thing highly irritating. The relationship is between self and world. It's grounding. If you're feeling superior to others and separated from the rest, there may well be something wrong.

The diaper change incident was one everyone else in the class had sympathized and agreed with (Yeah for being the only male there... -.-).

Also as far as behind the scenes. That may be true, but then I question why they aren't showing it to prove feminism is still a cause for good. Rather than letting the man haters get all the publicity and then only defend feminism with "You just don't get it", and other logical fallacies.

Honestly if my own experience counts for anything almost all people I see supporting gender equality are now humanist, not feminist. The few that are tend to be the easily offended kind who yell at you, block you band call you ignorant out if nowhere in the middle of a game simply for supporting gender equality under a different name.

Hell there's only 3 feminist I can think of who are not like then ones I described above. But far more who are.

As for Religion.
Alot of its scripture also supports rape, murder, slavery, racism, homophobia etc. It may have some decent messages. But I give no respect to beliefs based off a book that encourages such primitive behavior.

[Sere]

Me and myself do not get along