[OOC] The War of the Three

[Rune_Alchemist]

<Snipped quote by TheWindel>

I agree with @Rune_Alchemist on this one. The battle is far from over, and the Angels were kind of at a disadvantage from the start. Is Raziel the only person with a real injury besides Warboss?

@LokiLeo789

Remember, Gwynn has burns and otherwise some small bruises, a few broken bones, and scrapes from getting slammed with a missile. Another one of those and she'd probably be down for the count.

So yeeeah.

She's hurting a bit, even if she's not entirely showing it, since well, she's a bit of a berserker unit. Honestly, the BDSM thing these humans might attempt are probably just going to make her condition worse. Which is, kinda not fun.

[LokiLeo789]

<Snipped quote by LokiLeo789>

Remember, Gwynn has burns and otherwise some small bruises, a few broken bones, and scrapes from getting slammed with a missile. Another one of those and she'd probably be down for the count.

So yeeeah.

She's hurting a bit, even if she's not entirely showing it, since well, she's a bit of a berserker unit. Honestly, the BDSM thing these humans might attempt are probably just going to make her condition worse. Which is, kinda not fun.

@Rune_Alchemist

Thy hero, Raziel shall save from her plight, with the left hand of justice! Might be a while though, so ya, humanitys lustful torture is something she gonna have to deal with. Just hope they don't use the dog.

[Flamelord]

Herm? Angels having the disadvantage? Let's see.....

Well, Gwynn basically flew from the outside of the ship to the cargo hold without hitting any significant resistance along the way, in spite of only having a general location for Diana and not knowing the layout of the ship....

Azazeal pretty effortlessly ruined the whole acid rose trap Victiore had going on, without any serious loss to the angelic forces....

Raziel basically used magic lightning EMPs to wipe out the Machina on deck besides Grafdakka, though he does have an excuse as a special unit.....

Generally near totally unaffected by any automated or stationary defenses that might be present in the giant fortress, including anti-air fire, turrets, etc. I've been told that this is my fault for not being specific, but the point still stands when the non-PC Machina barely even pose a noteworthy challenge....

Basically, from where I'm sitting it's hardly like things have been unfair to the Angels. If anything they've been unfair to the Machina, since any natural advantage they might have in controlling the giant walking fortress of doom has been basically negated within a couple sentences besides the trump card.

[Rune_Alchemist]

Herm? Angels having the disadvantage? Let's see.....

Well, Gwynn basically flew from the outside of the ship to the cargo hold without hitting any significant resistance along the way, in spite of only having a general location for Diana and not knowing the layout of the ship....

@Flamelord

To explain, Gwynn is also a special unit. As in, a commander of Valkyries. She didn't fly anywhere, she expended most of her energy using brief little lightning jumps in an attempt to make a swift exit with Diana, which was summarily shut down without being able to give any actual resistance other than 'surrender or die'. (which, I honestly have to question how Regia acted in such a swift manner to effectively being ambushed by a Valkyrie charging at her at basically high-speeds. My fault for not bringing that up, I suppose.)

She didn't meet any 'significant resistance' because she cut them down with her blade, or moved too fast to be hindered that much. Remember, the Machina should have also been dealing with demon agents around this time so they should have logically been fighting among themselves, or otherwise in chaos.

Also, its safe to assume she knew about as much about the ship as Diana did, being a commander. She didn't know the specific location of Diana once she was inside, but she knew a rough area. After using a few of those jumps she was able to locate her through the process of elimination.

Azazeal pretty effortlessly ruined the whole acid rose trap Victiore had going on, without any serious loss to the angelic forces....

@Flamelord

They're angels. They have a natural advantage against demons. From where I stand, they shouldn't have incurred any heavy losses, especially if I remember right and they were burning away the corruption. (I could be wrong about that, as I haven't bothered to go back and read.) Yet, Victoire manages to get away unscathed, and still manages to lay down a powerful trap somehow with little to no repercussions.

Generally near totally unaffected by any automated or stationary defenses that might be present in the giant fortress, including anti-air fire, turrets, etc. I've been told that this is my fault for not being specific, but the point still stands when the non-PC Machina barely even pose a noteworthy challenge....

@Flamelord

What, we're supposed to describe every non-pc angel being shot down in graphic detail? I made a few references in my posts about angels being shot down I do believe. I assumed it was a given that it was happening, but I suppose that was wrong.

Basically, from where I'm sitting it's hardly like things have been unfair to the Angels. If anything they've been unfair to the Machina, since any natural advantage they might have in controlling the giant walking fortress of doom has been basically negated within a couple sentences besides the trump card.

@Flamelord

From where I'm standing, its honestly the opposite. The Angels have fought the hardest to be sure, especially Gwynn and Raziel, and have little to nothing to show for their efforts besides wounds, and any thing they try to accomplish get shut down before they can even do anything.

and eh...yeah, I think I'm done with this though, so whatevs. That's my perspective on things.

[KoL]

@Rune_Alchemist@LokiLeo789

Ok, let me be frank with you two. You guys are starting to sound just like you are kids who don't know that no one can win every time. Someone gotta lose that battle, y'know?

The Angels were at a disadvantage because of the Elicitor? Yes, because that's supposed to be their type disadvantage.

The Machina had the advantage of superior fire power and defenses? Yeah, again expected because that was the scenario for this battle. Yet, it meant absolutely nothing for the flyboys/girls that just dodged cannon fire and flak and laser and many more nasty stuff w/o a single scratch, only ever acknowledging Graff's attacks (but not taking any real damage for quite a few posts).

The Demons had the upper hand (or were supposed to)? Yeah... because they are the ones supposed to be strong against Machina and the Demon characters played to type much more close than the Angels, trying to find ways to circumvent their disadvantage with every post.

I mean, Gwynn is good, but you should know when much is too much. And, right now, there's about nothing she can do to free herself that wouldn't result in death or grievous injury. Plus a very dishonorable behavior, to turn your weapons to the enemy after you pledged surrender. Literally a dick move worth of a low Demon. Practically ignoring that the Elicitor is a mile long huge ship whose schematics she doesn't know wasn't cool, though.

However, Raziel and Azaezel, just popped on the battlefield and owned everyine and everything in the spam of one post each, more or less. I mean, it's nice (actually very nice) that you like your characters and we do like them as well and they are commanders and such but, this doesn't excuse destroying a spell that was active for most of the battle in one fell swoop while ignoring the bats that were sent to harass the flying targets or trying to completely disregard your weaknesses with a "Holy EMP" isn't very acceptable.

Can't you guys accept the defeat (if that's eve going to happen) with a bit of grace and try to, I don't know... win the next battle? Like I said, nobody can win always, why does it have to be you on this scenario,when you are at such a disadvantage?

---

At an unrelated note @Ryonara, if Diana changes sides, you can expect her to have this as her engineer uniform:

All's in the skillful hands of the Sisters, now.

[TheWendil]

I agree with @Rune_Alchemist on this one. The battle is far from over, and the Angels were kind of at a disadvantage from the start. Is Raziel the only person with a real injury besides Warboss?

@LokiLeo789

Regarding this, what direct confrontation has anyone else had with other Player Characters but Raziel, Gwynn, and Warboss? Everyone else has fought mooks IIRC in the IC. Falz and Shii'Ell clearly got affected by the undead puppets as well.

They're angels. They have a natural advantage against demons. From where I stand, they shouldn't have incurred any heavy losses, especially if I remember right and they were burning away the corruption. (I could be wrong about that, as I haven't bothered to go back and read.) Yet, Victoire manages to get away unscathed, and still manages to lay down a powerful trap somehow with little to no repercussions.

@Rune_Alchemist

You were also fighting against Machina. Machina have a natural advantage over the Angels. So where are all the bits about the Angels having to play it safe against bullets flying around here and there? Your heavy losses come from the Machina yet looking at the IC, it's almost like the Angels take no damage before nuking the battlefield, hardly giving anyone a chance to do anything. As for Victoire, she's merely following the same logic as Gywnn and Raziel as a Special Role.

From where I'm standing, its honestly the opposite. The Angels have fought the hardest to be sure, especially Gwynn and Raziel, and have little to nothing to show for their efforts besides wounds, and any thing they try to accomplish get shut down before they can even do anything.

and eh...yeah, I think I'm done with this though, so whatevs. That's my perspective on things.

@Rune_Alchemist

How? How exactly has every single Angel tactic been shut down? If anything, we've allowed you to go around no selling other people and attacks without restraint. Just wanted to point that out because quite frankly, none of your actions IC have been "shut down".

Now as you said yourself, you're done with this issue. So how about we all stop whining about supposed unfairness and try to move on. The issue of the battle ending can be resolved at a later date.

[KoL]

@Rune_Alchemist

PS: If Diana knew the ship's layout, she wouldn't be searching for an exit. She would be reaching for an exit. I never made it look like she knew it on my posts. She even stole some info to try and help her navigate! Heh.

[Rune_Alchemist]

@TheWindel
I'd like to point out, Gwynn took major damage from Graffdakka. She avoided bullets easily because she has a a shield, and some pretty good reflexes.

She's currently, as I said, has major burns, broken bones, and more than a few scrapes and bruises. That was from a missile she basically took to the face.

But...yeah, cool, I'll not say anything more.

@KoL
I don't mind losing, if its done logically and believably. Honestly, though, this has gotten a bit off of my original concern of having three more posts with everyone be far too short of a time to conclude this.

...I'd also like to ask why I wasn't informed of this when I asked in the Angel PM thread if it was logical Gwynn would know the same route Diana took to get into the ship. If it wasn't, I wouldn't even have made an attempt to do that.

[LokiLeo789]

As @Rune_Alchemist brought out, its not about winning, or lossing, it just needs to be done in a logical way. Ever heard the saying; all is fair in love and war. While love may not be a factor in this rp (not the good type) war is. I am acutely aware that nothing is fair in war, and everyone must make due with that they have...in reality!

This isn't reality, in a real war of this level, all the things happening couldn't be controlled. But this is an rp, and as the GM's, you have given us a world with controlled variables in the form of 'trump cards' and 'resistances', in this world at least.

This is a player driven rp, as we all know, so I can understand, that leaving things vague, would give us the opportunity to build things and use our imagination. And we have haven't we? The burrowing mechanic may have been straight forward, but was described clearly and beautiful. The sleeper cells were used outstandingly, take out the head, and the rest will fall. The angels of course, were given heavenly bombardment. In theory, this would be devastating, IF IT WASN'T COMPLETELY USELESS IN ALL FACTS OF THE MATTER.

I understand the concept behind resistances, I endorse it even! But why give us a trump card such as heavenly bombardment, when our target, is basically immune to it! You may say, thier not immune Loki! Your stupid. But they are! You endorsed it when is was said that Raizel's EMPs was a cheap way to bypass the weakness. Thats just the laws governing our world. You didn't say that it wasn't strong enough, no you said it was cheap, and shouldn't be used.

<Snipped quote by Rune_Alchemist>

You were also fighting against Machina. Machina have a natural advantage over the Angels.

@TheWindel

A natural advantage as you put it, doesn't mean they eat electricity like nothing? Are you saying that if angels throw holy magic at them, it meana nothing? And why are you all complaining about the angel demon interaction. You set that in place.

Look at it in the way of Pokemon. Any Poke fans out there? Anyway if I have a fire type, and my opponent has a water type, its obvious I've been countered, but that doesn't mean that my fire type can't do any damage at all.

In short, what I'm saying, is that we understand that war is all about advantages and disadvantages, and working off of that. But when you give us variables to work with, make sure to understand how they interact with the rules you set in place.

The greatest example of this, is the angels trump card. If Machina are basically immune to holy magic, how are we supposed to use the Holy bombardment at all?

[KoL]

@KoL
I don't mind losing, if its done logically and believably. Honestly, though, this has gotten a bit off of my original concern of having three more posts with everyone be far too short of a time to conclude this.

...I'd also like to ask why I wasn't informed of this when I asked in the Angel PM thread if it was logical Gwynn would know the same route Diana took to get into the ship. If it wasn't, I wouldn't even have made an attempt to do that.

@Rune_Alchemist

Because I thought that people would notice it, if they read my posts? I'm not even using random, complicated language to write them and still only a few persons get it.

Aside from that, it was because one had to think that it would (even if you disregard the above stuff) be logical that you can't run at god awful speeds inside of a mile long military ship, full of cramped spaces, tight curves and resistance. I mean, while the others on the ship encounter blockades and bulkheads everywhere, for Gwynn it was just a matter of "I slice everything on the way and get there in one post" how could I foresee that you would do that?

@LokiLeo789

Huh? I don't know, had out every occurred to you that, maybe you guys could have used it to, count the Demons, who are the ones weak to the Angels?

Like, using it to, severely damage the Elicitor (maybe even immobilize/silence its AA fire for a bit it while mechanics are forced to patch the damage to the ship) and more or less granted to kill Graf (who was the great deterrent on the Machina side), wipe out the NPC demon army (which is their main mode of attack), forcing them to activate their trump early to replenish their numbers to ineffective results and destroy Victoire's traps (maybe even kill her, depending on the side of the blast), but of course no. Your characters are so goddamn OP that you did it on your own, without even breaking a sweat, negating one of the uses fro your own weapon. Even now, you could use it to unearth the Elicitor and try to storm it on a surprise attack, while the guns are still getting ready for AA fire.

But no, what you want is divine nuclear holocaust, to blast the Elicitor and the demons to smithereens, and nothing else, is what you'll accept. Well, but there's a sad fact about trump cards and counters, the more you hold them back, the higher their value, but the lower are the chances to use them effectively. You took the risk of waiting, and now are reaping the results, simply put.

We don't give you suggestions on how to use your things, just give them to you. Don't complain if you misuse, or fail to capitalize on it for lack of foresight. Simply because you guys are believing that the Angels have the right to brute force everything and everyone, doesn't mean hat it's true.

[LokiLeo789]

<Snipped quote by Rune_Alchemist>

Because I thought that people would notice it, if they read my posts? I'm not even using random, complicated language to write them and still only a few persons get it.

Aside from that, it was because one had to think that it would (even if you disregard the above stuff) be logical that you can't run at god awful speeds inside of a mile long military ship, full of cramped spaces, tight curves and resistance. I mean, while the others on the ship encounter blockades and bulkheads everywhere, for Gwynn it was just a matter of "I slice everything on the way and get there in one post" how could I foresee that you would do that?

@LokiLeo789

Huh? I don't know, had out every occurred to you that, maybe you guys could have used it to, count the Demons, who are the ones weak to the Angels?

Like, using it to wipe out the NPC demon army and destroy Victoire's traps (maybe even kill her, depending on the side of the blast), but of course no. Your charges are so goddamn OP that you did it on your own

@KoL

It has occurred to me, band I understand that it has been over used, especially by me of all people, but then were does that leave us. If the resistance system was meant to balance everyone out, it should be applied in all facets. I cannot ignore that I have missed posts and miss used power, and I changed it! But we are playing Special Roles given plenty of power to work with, could you say anything if Raziel was a god? He's not but it begs to differ, if angels were given tactical advantages over demons, who come it has been frowned upon so fiercely. Power play? If so, was it crazy that Raizels shield protected him form the acid, I made that clear in my CS, yet I changed it. Did no one notice that apparently Victor's roses could rip apart a whole fortress leg?

The brambles also got one of the Elicitor's feet, shredding it with easy as they tried to engulf and crush the whole fortress while, it dug underground, if no one tried to counter, fast...

I may be nit picking her, I haven't been the only person exploiting their enemies natural weakness. You could say 2 posts is enough, but in IC time, that was just as fast as Raizels counter.

Also, your also forgetting that Raziel, or anyone for that matter, doesn't know the worth of this girl, Raziel doesn't know she's a girl, but if they fail to get it, is it really far fetched to let no one have it? As you said. We are given what we are given, so if we decide to nucler Holocaust everything, to avoid giving a ponetal assest to the enemy, we are going to do it.

[KoL]

@LokiLeo789

I'm not talking about that, you can use your advantage, just as we did. But, using said advantage in such a way, negated you one possible use of you trump card, so you can't complain with us about that.

The battle has to have a definitive and homogeneous end point to make it fair and controlled, so the most we can do is give a few more turns to everyone, yet, I think that more than 05 is too much. That's a matter that should be judged by @TheWindel, in the end. For now, let's work with what has been already established.

Also, if this discussion is bound to continue, I ask that it be handled on a PM. We've been dragging for more than 08 hours. It's about time this issue should have been solved already.

[Rune_Alchemist]

<Snipped quote by Rune_Alchemist>

Because I thought that people would notice it, if they read my posts? I'm not even using random, complicated language to write them and still only a few persons get it.

Aside from that, it was because one had to think that it would (even if you disregard the above stuff) be logical that you can't run at god awful speeds inside of a mile long military ship, full of cramped spaces, tight curves and resistance. I mean, while the others on the ship encounter blockades and bulkheads everywhere, for Gwynn it was just a matter of "I slice everything on the way and get there in one post" how could I foresee that you would do that?

@KoL

I simply misread your posts or something. Not that it matters, as a GM it is your job to clean up misunderstandings, and when I asked, there was obviously a misunderstanding somewhere that needed to be corrected.

And she wasn't running at 'god awful speeds' She literally basically teleported. I has a charge up time, and is used for quickly closing distances between point A and point B. I can run a mile in under thirteen minutes if I want to really badly. And resistances? The demons had infiltrated it at that point and removed all of the defenses as far as I was aware.

I even said if anyone had a problem with my post, I would be more than happy to change it.

But well, this doesn't matter so much to me any more honestly, as I will be pulling out of this RP.

@KoL@TheWindel@Lonewolf685

As much fun as I have had in my brief time here, I will be withdrawing my participation in this RP. For various reasons I will not get into with too much detail, but its mostly because I feel as though everything at the moment, is being forced, rushed, and the decisions made by the player characters are not playing into the story, or otherwise how things play out. (save for conveniently, the GM characters but I shall spare you rambling with examples of how they seem to be doing more or less doing everything in a somewhat predetermined manner.)

I honestly can't really even end in a 'homogeneous and definitive' way in any number of round of posts, as the angels are still plotting to regroup for a second attack, not to mention the demons that are still aboard. Unless the humans manage to somehow wipe out the demons. It seems in my opinion, that its only a way to cut things short so no one has a chance to do anything when there are other people still definitely in the fight.

Take that as you will, but I will be editing my post accordingly to have Gwynn not surrender. As for Silana, I shall simply have her quietly fade into the background. Assume she quietly packed her things, got bored with this war, and dug her some home or something in a graveyard.

Apologies for the small bit of a rant, but consider this my withdrawal of this RP. I hope that perhaps we can RP again more amicably in the future, but I will not remain in this one any longer.

[KoL]

@Rune_Alchemist

Well, I'm sorry that it had to be this way, instead of you giving us another chance to set things right. We were only trying to reach a solution that would be the best for everyone, but sadly no solution can please everyone. I understand that it's a burden to bear to accept some seemingly illogical or unfunny situations for the good of a collective story, but that's a thing that must happen (and I speak of experience) if you want to have a story that doesn't depends only of you or us.

I sure wish that we can RP again, but I'll also ask you to reconsider such a drastic measure, if you find it on yourself to do so. We all do mistakes, working them out is what generally is important.

On my end, while I don't think it's a perfect excuse, I have to ask your forgiveness for the fact that RL isn't very forgiving with my schedule.When I was able to read your post, there were already replies to it, asking for a change would imply a series of edits. If you simply didn't wanted Gwynn to surrender, you could have done so and come back to the fight 04 posts later.

In the end it was all a misunderstand that just escalated because we all were kinda hotheaded.

Either way, I hope to see you again, if that's what you.

[Lonewolf685]

Alright, it appears things hit a boiling point while I slept and heated exchanges have been had that I am, much like KoL typically, am too late to provide anything of substantial impact for.

However, I would request that you do not withdraw from the RP at this juncture.

It is understandable that in anything that requires conflict between players that tensions will get high as the competitive spirit reaches new heights, and we as the GMs also left a lot of wiggle room in the RP for the players to test their boundaries and play with new avenues of attack or interaction. In this our first battle we have all tried to test the murky and oft un-defined barriers around us in order to progress individual and overall narratives. Some of these clash, some mingle, and some never come in contact with another's at all.

This is a new RP, one that isn't set in stone at this juncture. Rules are made and changed to a degree in order to allow this RP to function as best as it can.

Clearly, everyone takes some umbrage with the faction they are opposed to, it's only natural. However I would ask we all remember this is the very first scenario a nigh endless litany of ones to come. We the GMs couldn't have planned the story as it happened, but it has transpired. All we can do now is take what lessons have been learned and adjust for the next scenario, whereupon we will have some new features such as an expansion and alteration to the Character Limit currently in effect.

All I'm asking is that we set aside these OOC discussions and disputes for a time, and see if we can't resolve our issues together rather then breaking apart. I myself have immensely enjoyed my interactions with Silana and Gwynn and think that losing them as well as the Player behind them would be a loss for the RP. At this point anyone would be a loss we would keenly feel for some time to come.

Since the consensus of players seems to be against a 3 post cycle time limit, and after sleeping on it I can see there is room for more to be had in this battle, I'd advocate to not install a limit at this point so arbitrarily.

So can we please just come together to kill each with fictional characters rather than the words comprising them? Cause I was going to release Diana and Gywwn for a short alliance or 3-way battle for control of Bastion in the cargo hold and it wouldn't be the same without you.
@Rune_Alchemist

As for everyone else, I hope this doesn't dissuade anyone from enjoying themselves as we continue and grow the RP into the future. Thank you.

@Ryonara, @Skyswimsky, @LokiLeo789, @Legion02, @Shyla Nesthorn, @Flamelord, @Rune_Alchemist, @Lucius Cypher, @KoL, @Lonewolf685, @Pyromania99

[Lucius Cypher]

I just wanted to fight and fuck...

[LokiLeo789]

@Lonewolf685
I don't think we should resort to letting them go through an alliance. Us angels before all this, was ready to mount a counter offensive on Man and the Demons. We had everything planned out, and at that point, when things were looking grim, seemed to breath life into us Angel players. So if you guys can give us the opportunity to continue from where we left off, nothing changed except the fact that the ship shouldn't be thar far underground. The Elicitor did apparently loose a whole leg.

@Rune_Alchemist
That means we are gonna need you! Pls?

[Lonewolf685]

@Lonewolf685
I don't think we should resort to letting them go through an alliance. Us angels before all this, was ready to mount a counter offensive on Man and the Demons. We had everything planned out, and at that point, when things were looking grim, seemed to breath life into us Angel players. So if you guys can give us the opportunity to continue from where we left off, nothing changed except the fact that the ship shouldn't be thar far underground. The Elicitor did apparently loose a whole leg.

@Rune_Alchemist
That means we are gonna need you! Pls?

@LokiLeo789

Considering an entire leg is lost, yeah I'd say that would slow down the Elicitor.

And also who doesn't love a Mexican Standoff? 2 Angels v 3 Machina + GRNTS v 4 Demons in the cargo hold! One helluva a rumble for the prize!

[Rune_Alchemist]

@Lonewolf685@KoL@TheWindel

...gotta be honest. Was not expecting to wake up to you guys actually asking for me not to leave.

Apologies if I seemed a little...hot headed in my withdrawal. I honestly probably was a little hasty in my leaving. It was like, three AM and I really need to learn to get off forums by then. Or go read my usual brand of kinky smut if I can't sleep xP

*Ahem*

Anyways, I'll refrain from withdrawing for now. @Lonewolf685 managed to at least alleviate some of my concerns with his post.

So...uh, yeah. Hail Rufus and all that~

Not much more to say here, really, so yeah. Apologies for the little...shitshow I started when I simply asked for the post limit to not be reduced so arbitrarily. Kinda got majorly off point there and I am admittedly, partly at fault for that.

Edited Gwynn's post again.

...whereupon we will have some new features such as an expansion and alteration to the Character Limit currently in effect.

@Lonewolf685

....

More characters? Am I reading that right?

....if so. I know what I'm making. You know what this RP needs? Slime girls.

[Lucius Cypher]

You know what this RP needs? Slime girls.

@Rune_Alchemist