[OOC] Divinity Vs Dazsos!

[Dazsos]

To your second paragraph, I'm not talking about the first laser beam Myron fired, but the current one. I'd say ease, scope, and power are all important. Quality and quantity both matter, as well.

The book would've been behind the dome of ice, so I figure Myron would have enough time to toss it aside when he hears a boom.

I've got a touch of writer's block right now, so I'll tell you about Myron's racial features later.

[Dazsos]

By the end of that post, I have no clue where Corban/Ishtalle is... no clue where or in what angles they traveled, because I didn't know where they were facing before being pushed backwards, or if backwards would've meant deeper in to the earth. Irrigation is usually on the surface of dirt, but he was underground, so I'm a bit confused about that.

Also, given the nature of the beam, it's gravity locked in to a certain direction up close. Since its width is greater than a sword's edge, I'm not sure if its course would be completely bent in to a V shape, as opposed to the dis-junction protecting Ishtalle from destruction, whilst two separately smaller beams on either side of the sword continued their original path.

[Divinity]

Well corban was going to stab you in the back, so he was behind you. I stated in the last post that corban left the earth when he came to stabby stab. The aerogel is spread a foot around the blade. A foot is a decent amount of body coverage, and can cover majority of, if not all of the chest, which is where the attack is angled for, and the aerogel was specifically used as an insulator to account for the stray beam sparks. Plus the added protection of the disjunction, and the diamond field would leave corban himself believably unharmed. I also figured there would be some sparks flying like you suggested, too. That's why his barrier had several holes punched through it despite the aforementioned defenses.

Edit: I actually misquoted myself. The aerogel covered a whole two feet. Which is more than enough.

[Dazsos]

If any stray beam seeped through the cracks and was able to damage his diamond skin, I don't see how he wouldn't be left with searing burns or at least some kind of hint towards damage taken.

Now I also don't know how Corban would be able to quick-cast that defence in a mere milisecond, as a reaction to his sheath being blocked. Myron wasn't preparing a riposte, he was scouting for Corban's whereabouts and aiming his attack beforehand, only a fraction of a second after the sheath struck had Myron actually unleashed the attack he had been honing. I might agree to him quick-casting so that it's not a kill-shot, but I still don't see him being left unscathed if sparks could burn through his diamond skin.

Oh, and this aerogel coating, is it actual aerogel? From my knowledge, aerogel is a good heat insulator, but it's actually quite fragile and shatters under pressure... and there's a lot of pressure in that hyper beam.

EDIT: Also I just remembered an important point I had in my head about our earlier debate. It's not relevant now, but I gotta' get it off my chest. You stated that all kinetic energy isn't connected, whilst I said it was. I think my part of that argument stems from the idea that the earth rotates, so everything is always given motion, regardless of how insignificantly small. But now I have to take in to consideration that this is high tier, so we can just tell physics to fuck off, really.

[Divinity]

Even under 'high tier' stipulations, I still believe some laws of physics and logic still need to apply. This is still T1, after all. I dont believe high tier is the equivalent of 'do whatever, however, and suffer no consequences'.

Corban fired the sheathe specifically to prepare for a riposte in the event it didn't hit, so he was ready when you fired it off, and could thus react accordingly for the most part. There were also two different units of time used to describe your casting. First is used 'split seconds', which implied more time. Then you stated 'not even a whole second' which implies less. I just decided to go somewhere in between. I also gave several other reasons that Corban would be prepared for the spell.

The diamond barrier wasn't his skin, by the way. It was summoned around him in a 'shell' or oblong shape. I also didn't mean they were literal 'sparks'. They are the stray blasts of energy that managed to escape the aerogel and disjunction.

The aerogel was stated to have been extended beyond its worldly limitations, and graphene-aerogels are slightly denser than base aerogels. So is it an aerogel? Yes. However, it has better performance than any aerogels known today. I also was not aware that the rune of nihil was using gravity as of this point, since last time it came up it wasn't. I know you unlocked the gravity rune, but I was, again, unaware that gravity became a part of the equation(since you had some gravity based runes still in use even before we escalated to high tier). But regardless, id still say Corban gets out of the attack between all the aforementioned facts.

Edit: Also taking Corban's crystal defense into account, damage would be lessened by the crystals ability to resist magic and magic-like attacks/defenses, which would lessen the blow a bit more as well.

Edit: about the rotational energy, yes, the world is spinning and therefore everyone/thing moving, but that energy is not 'connected' in any way other than causality(earth spinning causes movement). To freeze kinetic movement in a small, finite area is nothing like stopping the whole planet from spinning. Even in high tier I never utilize world-busting things like that.

[Dazsos]

There was no mention in your second last post that Corban was preparing for a riposte, so I must assume his actions are all post-haste. There was mention that he'd already shoot out Ishtalle, though, and 'immediately' after.

Split seconds was a reference to everything that would be going on in that moment, and how long it took Myron to lock in on the burrowing Corban. It is mentioned specifically that there is less than a second between the sheath striking his shield, and the laser beam being set off, this is the timeframe Corban has to fully create aerogel, enchant it, and enchant Ishtalle to deflect magic. (Also, wasn't his enchanting ability nerfed?)

If you're going to use a real-life synthetic material as an example, it should follow the laws of its own physicality. Aerogel is one of the lightest materials on earth, there is no doubt that the beam would thrust Ishtalle right back in to Corban. After some research, I've also learned that aerogel & areographene have a melting point of about 2,250F, which means it cannot insulate against lava. A disintegration ray has the heat and pressure necessary to not only melt rock in to lava, but to eradicate it entirely. Both melting and shattering are likely scenarios for the aerogel, even if it is enchanted beyond the norm. We're talking fifty times hotter than aerogel can handle. (EDIT: More research, carbon aerogel melts at about 6,422F, which still doesn't protect it.)

You weren't aware that the beam had the force of extreme gravity behind it, so you didn't post accordingly to what would happen if it did. This means edits need to be made. Beacon of Nihil is stated to be the combination of two major runes, gravity, and erosion, that is because it has the effects of both. It is not a hyperpowered flashlight, it is one of Myron's most powerful spells; and he only has a few purely offensive spells.

[Divinity]

It doesn't need to be mentioned. That was the purpose in the tactic. The first attack was to bait a deflection if it did not strike, and that's precisely what happened.

From the way it was written, there was no real distinction between actions, and it seemed like you were simply double-referencing, which led me to believe that there were two separate timestamps. Firstly aerogel is hyper-present due to it being primarily air-based, and air is everywhere. He did not enchant it, he altered its physical properties using magic, which is closer to transmutation than enchanting. He also is not 'enchanting' Ishtalle. He's simply re-casting a previous spell with her as its target and Corban is capable of casting quite quickly even when he hasn't already used a spell, so we can assume he's casting at least double that speed when it comes to the ability that states he can cast them again.

And why should I not be allowed to logically amp up a material if its under my control and I understand its ins and outs? What does it being 'synthetic' have anything to do with it? Should earth not be allowed to become harder? Water can't become hotter? And I don't believe you should be the one to gauge what my aerogel can take when it was summoned specifically to deal with the spell, a spell corban already knows and has already seen. Again, I think my aerogel defense is fine.

I wasn't aware of the gravity because I wasn't told. I specifically asked about the gravity portion of the spell earlier, and you said you weren't using it, even though you had also said you were still using other runes that would involve gravity. I took this to mean you were locking that ability regardless for whatever reason. So my not dealing with it in my post is because of that.

Edit: If you are still not satisfied, then we can consult Innue. I've lain my defenses and you your arguments.

Edit 2: I also have a defence for the gravity argument. The disjunction was splitting apart the beam, which also means getting rid of a large chunk of its energy, which includes mass(gravity). So I actually think it splitting the beam around corban is entirely possible.

Note: The aerogel and disjunction are being casted at once, not separately.

[Dazsos]

I wasn't using the gravity part before, because at that time, gravity was locked, so I technically couldn't. Now it's a little different, gravity is now unlocked; there IS a gravity rune in Beacon of Nihil, and it's aimed at Corban. You can't suddenly go back on your agreement for Myron to unlock that rune, just now while its effects are being used. Also, your character dealt with the beam in its weakest form, when its state changes after 100ft. I'm sure Corban wouldn't be aware that it is hundreds of times more lethal up close.

Aerogel is 98% air, so I see a wind wizard having more leeway here. Your character can surely abuse his power over the 2% with ease, though, cause that's carbon graphene. I looked in to the process of making aerogel, too... it requires rather precise methods depending on what type of aerogel. Formation of the gel. Super-critical drying and extracting of liquids. Graphene also requires precision; Forming a base out of zinc, only to evaporate it later with heat.

Also I was prepared for your argument 'well Corban can quick cast abilities he used before,' ages ago. You gave him a cap on spells he can quick-cast, limiting it to 'the most recent 3 he used.' Since the kinetic barrier that deflected Myron's beam was the first spell you used in our bout, and Corban has definitely used more than 3 since then, he should not receive the quick-cast buff just because he used a spell prior; Else, by that logic, Corban can quick cast any spell he's ever used once.

Let us see what @Innue has to say about this debate.

Edit: So Corban can quick-cast two complex spells at the same time, in under a second? Wow... I dunno' if I want to give you that privilege.

[Divinity]

The rune was locked in the beginning, yet you still said certain runes would have it. I figured that would include it in the beginning, but it didn't for whatever reason. That's what prompted me to ask in the first place. So when you said you were disabling it despite the fact you were using it on others, I figured it was a permanent decision. Corban was also aware of its maximum power, not just what he dealt with. He saw you cast it, and therefore the power that came with it. Regardless, I still dont think it would be damning based on the final edit in my previous message.

I think you're paying way too close attention to the element and not the processes involved. Transmutation is a skill independant of elements. Transmutation is altering the form or nature of something. The more worldly knowledge one possesses the better the transmuter. It even states that Corban studies quite extensively on the sheet. As for the processes to create it; precision is Corban's middle name. Through the functioning class of his transmutation ability, all of those processes are quite simple. It only sounds complicated, yet can be carried out quickly when not limited to a sterile lab. Graphene can also be created in many ways besides just zinc. It is molecularly identical to diamond. Its atoms are just slightly rearranged. Corban's robes are made of graphene, also.

The sublimate spell was used twice, and was continually active throughout the fight until my previous post where it was discarded. I still think its safe to say the quick-cast would work fine. Even without it, the spell falls into his primary vocation of abjuration and guarding. Creating barriers and dispels is literally second nature to him.

As for the 'complexity', they aren't complex to corban, whom is using two of his most predominant skills where his study is centralized. Especially considering one of them is something he's been in close proximity to for majority of the fight. Both of these are quite second nature for him.

So yes, I'll leave it up to Innue here.

Edit: I forgot to say this after I posted, but upon Crystal's dialogue, I grant you access to all of your runes, if it hadn't already been decided somewhere that they already were, and whatever appropriate casting speed you wish. Upon deciding it would be high tier, I figured why not go all out?

[Innue]

I've read through it a couple of times, but I want to sit on it a bit longer if you don't mind. I need to actually sketch out a timeline to make a determination and I am tired at the moment. There is a lot more spells flying around on both sides than I expected to have to rule on.

If you wish to do the preliminary legwork for me, if each of you could do the following...

Write out which spells were used, if they were used in response to another spell, at what distance they were used, and their general travel speed. I know most of this is contained within the last four posts or so, but I am having difficulty easily figuring out how much time has passed in those last few posts. Some illumination on the perception of the combatants would be helpful.

[Dazsos]

Myron activated one spell (technically two runes, gravity & erosion), it was prepped before the post he used it in. (during the timeframe in which he created his mask, which began on post 6.) It's a disintegration ray, and it's pretty much his only spell that moves at bullet-like speeds. The ray was shot at point blank, after Myron began tracking his foe's underground trajectory. Corban used a railgun spell (?) to shoot both his sword sheath and sword at Myron's solarplex, half a second after the sheath struck Myron's mask-shield, he fired the laser. ( The laserbeam is coming out of the mask's eye.)

Defending against the laser beam, Corban would react the second he hears the sheath clash. He creates a graphene aerogel around his sword, enchants it to be stronger than any worldly aerogel known to date, and then erects a magical sublimating conjunction around the sword's blade capable of dividing the beam off course. My issue with this is the split-second decision it would take, the difficulty needed to channel and activate a complex spell and a barrier at the same time, and the fact that aerogel wouldn't actually be able to handle heat or kinetic pressure of this caliber; I had to research graphene aerogels to be sure, myself.

I don't mean to entirely speak on behalf of Divinity, so of course, his rebuttal will also be important to hear.

[Divinity]

Firstly, I wouldn't say any of that constitutes preps to your ray. You merely mentioned the mask, never stated any power was growing or anything that could convince me it was powering up at all. The only thing it seemed to be 'prepping' was the water pouring from its mouth. If 'prepping' was just having something active, do you know how powerful my disjunction should be when it was active the whole fight?

I also said nothing Corban did was enchantment. All transmutation and free manipulation of materials. Not sure if you used that word accidentally but yeah, when trying to have an official ruling wording is important. Also, it was created having those preturnatural properties. Not made, then extended. The disjunction, as I argued before, would sublimate the kinetic energy, and most other forms of energy present within which would both decrease the mass(gravity) it has, which would protect the aerogel coating. Even of the aerogel was stilldestroyed, it would take a good bit of the bite out of the attack, and it would still have to penetrate magically insulated crystal(which I allowed it to do as a show of sportsmanship). All those defenses, and it still junked up Corban's barrier pretty well.

I also have several other reasons Corban's reaction time(beyond having superhuman abilities that intuitively would include that) would be fine given the factors surrounding it in the spoiler on my post and within the post itself.

[Innue]

Can you two agree on a hard amount of time (in seconds) that is in question?

[Dazsos]

The beam was prepped. I stated a Beacon of Nihil was written in the eye. That's all the preparation I needed. That's how his spell works. Power doesn't grow within it, the rune unleashes it all at once from a completely dormant state.

When you say the aerogel is enhanced beyond normal means, you don't mention the science behind its fortification. You give no basis on what could destroy it. Graphene Aerogel's unworldly limits could very well include doubling up the heat absorption to 12,000f, which even then wouldn't be enough.

Myron activated his laser half a second after the sheath struck his shield. Corban reacted instantly after hearing his sheath be deflected. The time-frame is visible in the IC. It's under a second, roughly half of one.

[Divinity]

That is not at all how prepping works on any community I've been in. Most preps require at least a turn to mature, and some kind of mention. Literally what you are saying is that mentioning anything at any time can count as a prep. If that is really how were doing it then it stands to reason that my disjunction is far more prepped than your attack, and could therefore stop it far more than what is present in my post, because Corban is recasting the exact same spell component.

That's where the term 'preturnatural' comes in. If your book can at any time attain 'adamantine' rigidity and stop a prepped railgun attack, I see no reason my aerogel can't be enhanced. Im not saying the beam itself couldn't destroy the aerogel. Im saying that after losing a great deal of its energy I doubt it would lack the required energy to do much. Even if it did, it would not at all change the outcome because it would still diffuse more upon contact with the diamond barrier. Corban would not be wounded.

Again, half a second is enough time for these two primary vocations to be utilized. With that, I close my arguments and await Innue's judgment if we will not continue.

Edit: @InnueI'd say anywhere from 1/2-3/4 of a second.

Edit: I thought that fights that had no preset rules agreed upon would default to Eden Era rules, since that is what I assumed we were abiding by. Would that not make Dazsos' preps null and void since no continuous mention was given, nor any prep phases taken for it?

[Dazsos]

Hypocrisy is what pisses me off... and I'm seething right now. Like, is this some horribly demeaning tactic to try and make me argue with less rationality, and more hate?

Cool down, Daz, cool down...

Alright...

It's stated the runes were written, and several turns progressed. The rune was written, the rune was prepared. If you forgot that it was written... you made a mistake! I don't have to continually remind you that it exists if it's created, because I assume you don't have a goldfish memory. You cannot ignore/forget my preps, then say they don't exist. Are you so desperate? Comprehend that different forms of magic work in different ways; My character creates spells that can be dormant until activated. You accepted battling Myron's sheet, with all the information available to you. I accepted a battle with Corban, with minimal information given to me. So far I've given you far more respect than you've given me.

Corban's spells always take roughly one turn to both prep and activate, sometimes less! Multiple spells in fractions of seconds? I've never seen a single one of your abilities actually take a logical amount of time time to activate. Myron's runic spells that he has to conjure from nothing always took 2 or more turns. You are not properly prepping your spells; therefore your argument should reflect on your own hypocrisy. Those two spells made in a fraction of a second should be null and void. Because prep means logical time casted. And you sir, do not prep.

[Divinity]

A prep is not inherently connected to cast time. Both of my attacks were unprepped so you're arguing against something that was never presented to begin with. What i said was, if simply mentioning something a single time and then leaving it active counted as a prep, my disjunction has been 'prepping' the whole fight. Then Suddenly you throw a hissy fit when I suggest I get the same treatment. Do not assume I'm desperate because you bring a prep out of NOWHERE, which is suddenly beyond convenient for you, while following none of the rules governing preps whatsoever. Simply MENTIONING something a single time does not constitute a prep. Not under Eden era codes of conduct. Dont even try that. If it's dormant, genius, then how in the hell is it prepped?

Respect? I've shown nothing but respect, but its time I correct this travesty. Lets not even get into how I totally ignored the blatant overextention of your characters earth abilities. He had to cheat on all his exams to even pass yet can isolate corbans specific kinetic disturbances whilst a kinetic sink is being activated and all the things going on would have made the vibrations indeterminable from the other? I overlooked many, many glaring oversights in your post in the name of fun and sportsmanship, and even allowed my barrier to be damaged in a show of good faith. I even gave you access to all your runes. That's right, the space-time ones, too. I gave you everything asked for both in pm's and the public eye.

A prep is not 'logical time casted'. A prep is a gauge of power placed into an action.

[Dazsos]

Delayed reactions. Prep... doesn't prep mean prepare? If it does, Myron prepared his rune, then kept it dormant until he needed it.

You also overlooked how blood magic was the main factor in Myron locating Corban underground, and he's beyond a master in such an art. Earth magic; I didn't say he couldn't control earth without water, he's fully capable of scouting the area with geomancy.

You didn't give me access to Myron's space-time paradox, so that's a lie. So no, no 'time' based magic here. Gravity and rift, sure. I never unlocked the timespace paradox. We didn't actually get to that, not yet. I was waiting to be done with this issue. If your character could do what you've expressed him capable of in that post, my god, I'd definitely need to control time itself to beat you.

I assume a prep is actually just an abbreviation of prepare. I should know, my character actually struggles with cast times and spells that require preparation, unlike Corban.

[Divinity]

I would implore you scout the internet for other places that use the 'Eden Era' T1 set. 9/10 a prep is a gauge of power, not specifically time. I would not count a mention, and then just simply having them exist near you count as a prep. I'll just leave it to innue to decide on her own.

As of the final edit of about eight messages ago I said you can use your space-time rune, because of Corban's transformation. I knew you'd have even more complaints so I gave you access to your final runes. That seems to be the only way to appease you so I offered it.

And why in the hell would you need to control time and space to kill a guy who can just cast fast? If my defense is what made you say that then dear god have we really got different views on power tiers and t1 etiquette.

[MelonHead]

Just to chime in on the prep thing, if you intend to 'power up' an ability by preparing it further it requires subsequent mentions. However, as it stands the attack would have a single prep if it has only been mentioned once, though that's still enough to overcome a barrier which has no preps at all. There's also the debate whether any hits the character has taken should impact 'stored' preps, but that's another issue entirely. I don't -think- Dazsos is arguing the rune has been powering up this entire time, as he did just say it was 'dormant.' Not unlike my pillar elementalist, he casts a spell and then leaves it (presumably in some visible form) until he needs its effect. Pre-preparing the ability essentially, sort of like loading a crossbow and pulling the trigger when a target appears.

I only interject because while I enjoy watching debates I'm not a part of, it seems this most recent one is borne from a simple misunderstanding.

Innue is probably going to judge eventually, but from a cursory glance at the OOC (and logic) this barrier defence was not prepared in advance, therefore the beam takes precedence. Damage from a single prep attack is not expected to be overwhelming, but the barrier should fail according to T1 Eden, and the statistical evidence Dazsos gave is a neat explanation for why it does. (Though if I'm wrong and the shield was prepped and the beam insufficiently prepped forgive me, I haven't read the entire fight thoroughly.)